Silverliner Vs Out of Service - Technical Topics

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Silverliner Vs Out of Service - Technical Topics

Postby Quinn » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:34 pm

This is the thread for all Silverliner V Out of Service Technical related discussions.
Service and Schedule discussion is over here: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=162919&start=0
-alex



Matt Mitchell posted in the comments:

We have been told the problem is in the trucks (the wheel assemblies). More details will be available tomorrow. Only a fraction of the cars have passed a detailed inspection, and replacement parts are not readily available, so the disruption to service could extend through the rest of the summer.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby MACTRAXX » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Everyone:

Placing all 120 Silverliner Five cars out of service - temporarily - puts SEPTA in quite a bind having to rely on the 230 car(?) Silverliner Four fleet
in which the 1975-1976 add-on order (The RDG 100's and the 380-390s PC cars) are now reaching their 40th birthday this year.
MBTA has had problems with their Rotem multilevel cars as noted in the MBTA Forum - and it will be interesting to see how Denver's new Airport
Rail Line fares with their Silverliner fleet - will problems develop?

I note recent mention of problems with the S5 trucks - was it Rotem or a sub supplier that built them?

SEPTA needs to lease compatible cars from wherever they are available - NJT Arrows are a prime example as njrail mentions.

They will need to further use the push-pull fleet - in the precarious situation of having 8 motors that are becoming more unreliable...

With ridership growing and a engineer shortage that is now beginning to cause train cancellations SEPTA RRD needs help-SOON.

I would not be surprised if there are some at Regional Rail that wish that the retired Silverliner Two and Three cars were still around...

The Summer of 2016 is not looking good for SEPTA RRD with these looming problems...

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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby Broadway » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:49 pm

Equalizing beams on the trucks need to be inspected for cracks, trucks were cast here in U.S.A.. Don't think the beam part of truck are a casting though.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby geofftech » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:22 pm

Haven't the Silverliner V's been in service for 5yrs at this point? How would SEPTA or Hyundai-Rotem simulate the stresses that could cause this is during the manufacturing and testing processes?
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby Matt Johnson » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:43 pm

geofftech wrote:Haven't the Silverliner V's been in service for 5yrs at this point? How would SEPTA or Hyundai-Rotem simulate the stresses that could cause this is during the manufacturing and testing processes?


I think 5 years or so, which hopefully means Denver doesn't face an immediate crisis with its new commuter service.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby aem7 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:51 am

I believe the trucks were all manufactured in central Pennsylvania, somewhere near York PA.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:23 pm

If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby dcipjr » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:00 pm

I'm not surprised it's the trucks that are at fault. Ride quality is terrible on the Vs. They are less jerky (I'm guessing due to the newer motors) but they seem to bounce and wiggle like crazy at speed.

What about borrowing some retired HHP-8s from Amtrak to run the push-pulls? They aren't good quality either, but maybe there are some of them around.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby srepetsk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:42 pm

The SEPTA press conference about the cracking issue in the truck equalizer beams is available on Periscope for playback: https://twitter.com/SEPTANews/status/749664764427546624
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby rdgrailfan » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:01 pm

Interesting footnote regarding the truck supplier.
The parent company of Columbus castings filed bankruptcy in May of this year. Going to be interesting on warranty claims.

http://www.columbuscastings.com/truck_f ... sters.html
"Columbus Castings is the market leading designer and manufacturer of Outboard and Inboard Journal Truck assemblies for the Heavy Rail Mass Transit industry. Having designed , tested, manufactured, and assembled thousands of truck assemblies for Amtrak Surfliner and Viewliner cars, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority, New Jersey Transit, and several other transit authorities we possess unequaled engineering and operational expertise to service this industry."

Our Truck assemblies are cast in steel with a one-piece H-frame design. I believe that SEPTA specified the design.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby Nasadowsk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:33 pm

rdgrailfan wrote:The parent company of Columbus castings filed bankruptcy in May of this year. Going to be interesting on warranty claims.


What warranty? Columbus is basically a goner. Their legal dept will try to drag this out a few years because there's no way they can pay for a few hundred replacement trucks. And let's be honest here, replacement is likely the only option. It's either crappy castings, or the design is screwed up.

we possess unequaled engineering and operational expertise to service this industry."


Yeah, so unequaled they screwed up manufacturing a design that dates back to the Kennedy Administration...
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby MACTRAXX » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:07 pm

Everyone:

With the findings of truck problems with the S5 cars this reminds me of a problem NYC Transit had with their 745 car R46 fleet dating from the second half of the 1970s that were built by Pullman-Standard which were cracks in trucks supplied by Rockwell International.

I recall a lawsuit by the MTA sought to have the R46 trucks repaired or replaced and in time this fleet is still in service on routes such as the A Train. Not sure what the exact outcome was but the problem ended up being solved.

Can SEPTA invoke something similar against Rotem to either repair or replace defective trucks or their components?

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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby Nasadowsk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:30 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone:

With the findings of truck problems with the S5 cars this reminds me of a problem NYC Transit had with their 745 car R46 fleet dating from the
second half of the 1970s that were built by Pullman-Standard which were cracks in trucks supplied by Rockwell International.

I recall a lawsuit by the MTA sought to have the R46 trucks repaired or replaced and in time this fleet is still in service on routes such as the A Train.
Not sure what the exact outcome was but the problem ended up being solved.

Can SEPTA invoke something similar against Rotem to either repair or replace defective trucks or their components?

MACTRAXX


They replaced every single truck and did a LOT of modifications to those cars, and they still sucked for a long time.

My guess is Rotem will honor the warranty, try to sue Columbus, get nothing out of them, and either chalk it up to a learning experience, or pull out of the US market altogether.

Of course, going with Kawasaki might not have helped in this case - it was probably SEPTA who wanted that truck design. I can't imagine Rotem willingly went to a small time manufacturer teetering on the brink, to build a 60's vintage design, when there's much better likely off the shelf available to them.
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby BuddCar711 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:33 pm

Are the SL-Vs riding on General 70s? If so, why are they having structural problems and not the SL-IVs, SL-IIIs (when they were still operating), or the B-IV Broad Street cars? Was the design modified?
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Re: All Silverliner Vs out of service due to a structural de

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:39 pm

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