SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby phillyrube » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:06 pm

Ok, rolling blackouts. How many people will stand for that?
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As the power plant nears completion complains stilll roll in

Postby zebrasepta » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm

http://www2.philly.com/philly/business/ ... 80918.html

Construction of the $26.8 million facility is 80 percent complete, SEPTA officials said, and the generator, being built on the same property as the Midvale Bus Depot near the Roosevelt Expressway and West Hunting Park Avenue, is scheduled to begin operating in January.

Yet, in a small municipal hearing room at 16th and Arch Streets on Tuesday, the project's near-completion was no obstacle to fierce opposition from a coalition of environmental and community activists. They were before the Licenses and Inspections Review Board appealing an air permit the facility was granted — the latest fight in two years of opposition to the generator. The opponents have had little success stopping or even slowing the project but insist they will prevail.

"We'll take the issue to the EPA," said Peter Winslow, a member of 350 Philadelphia, an environmental group that has led the fight. "We'll take the issue to City Council. This is not going to end."

People are still complaining about the Power plant it seems
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby NorthPennLimited » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:12 pm

Let the hippies complain.

There is more toxic soup in the ground from the old Midvale Steel plant to ruffle your feathers over, rather than some carbon monoxide from a natural gas generator.

This project is almost funding itself. Do these protesters mind paying for solar panels and windmills at the expense of a tax hike or fare hike?

I wonder how many protesters own a gasoline powered vehicle, or live in a home with oil or natural gas heat. Or wear clothing made in a sweat shop, using child labor, then shipped half way across the globe (using fossil fuels to propel the ships and trucks) so we can buy $19.99 denim jeans $5.00 T-shirts and use the rest of our money to buy cheap electronics.

Don't these hippie democrats also want lots of middle class jobs? This type of project supports construction workers, electricians, and pipe fitters to make the generating station. The fuel is supplied from gas wells leased and drilled right here in the Commonwealth. The workers who will run and maintain the generating plant will also be hired locally. Jobs jobs jobs.

But they want to protest emissions from a gas plant in an area that is zoned heavy industrial, and has been since after the civil war. These people are every bit hypocrites as the republicans they trash.

Everybody in this Millenial generation loves to point the finger and hold protests, but they don't have any solutions or honest fact-based discussions to brainstorm solutions to their "first world" problems.
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby ekt8750 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:49 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:Let the hippies complain.

There is more toxic soup in the ground from the old Midvale Steel plant to ruffle your feathers over, rather than some carbon monoxide from a natural gas generator.

This project is almost funding itself. Do these protesters mind paying for solar panels and windmills at the expense of a tax hike or fare hike?

I wonder how many protesters own a gasoline powered vehicle, or live in a home with oil or natural gas heat. Or wear clothing made in a sweat shop, using child labor, then shipped half way across the globe (using fossil fuels to propel the ships and trucks) so we can buy $19.99 denim jeans $5.00 T-shirts and use the rest of our money to buy cheap electronics.

Don't these hippie democrats also want lots of middle class jobs? This type of project supports construction workers, electricians, and pipe fitters to make the generating station. The fuel is supplied from gas wells leased and drilled right here in the Commonwealth. The workers who will run and maintain the generating plant will also be hired locally. Jobs jobs jobs.

But they want to protest emissions from a gas plant in an area that is zoned heavy industrial, and has been since after the civil war. These people are every bit hypocrites as the republicans they trash.

Everybody in this Millenial generation loves to point the finger and hold protests, but they don't have any solutions or honest fact-based discussions to brainstorm solutions to their "first world" problems.


*claps*
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby westernfalls » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:57 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:
Don't these hippie democrats also want...
...hypocrites as the republicans they trash.



Godwin's Law may need updating. The proponents and opponents of this project come in all flavors.
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby NorthPennLimited » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:30 am

But the Captain said:
Attachments
BB132D1D-0ABE-40BC-9BDE-4647422B725F.jpeg
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby MACTRAXX » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:06 pm

westernfalls wrote:
NorthPennLimited wrote:
Don't these hippie democrats also want...
...hypocrites as the republicans they trash.



Godwin's Law may need updating. The proponents and opponents of this project come in all flavors.

WF and Everyone: Yes-NIMBYs and BANANAs (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone)
can come from anyplace regardless of where they may reside on the so-called Political Spectrum.

Instead of turning this subject into a partisan political rant (and getting the topic locked up) we
need to look further at why these opponents are against this SEPTA RRD power plant.

Sometimes I do think that NIMBYs and BANANAs oppose ANY change in anything just for the
sake of being against something...MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby sammy2009 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:16 am

I was talking about this in my ASET class. Basically the reason why so many people and many in the vicinity in the community are against it is because of the health affects it could have on people. Why should SEPTA build such a plant in a residential neighborhood. ? Is there another alternative to build in a different location ? Does anyone recall the movie "Erin Brockovich" ? based on the water plant in a small town in California that was contaminated and the company lied and the residents end up being sick and having life long illness ? This falls under that category in a sense i believe.
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:55 pm

The working "Given" is the local power Company is unwilling to supply power(Dedicated service) for the former RDG 11kv 25hz catenary,
and SEPTA does not want to be dependent on Amtrak to supply power to the RDG Grid.
So SEPTA needs to build it's own Power Plant to supply the RDG Grid using two clean natural gas Turbine generators with 1 standby Diesel/natural gas
generator to power the plant local power when maintenance is required on the turbines.

The plant's designed along the lines of a "Peaker Plant" used to supply power during peak power demand days if SEPTA decides to sell the plant in
the future to the local power Company.

There will be a fenced in High Voltage switchgear/transformer yard behind the plant to tie into the RDG Grid.

All of above are what the NIMBY's are fighting against,along with any chemical/coolant spills that might happen.
Also fighting the Zoning law change(if any) that allowed the plant to be built
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby Ryand-Smith » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:25 pm

See, as someone who knows and deals with power, the alternatives aren't ideal. If you want to provide power via solar you would still need this site as a HUGE battery and flywheel array and to keep it charged via solar to run when there are blackouts and you still end up needing a fuel cell (the cleanest fossil fuel) around.
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby Ryand-Smith » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:28 pm

NorthPennLimited wrote:Let the hippies complain.

There is more toxic soup in the ground from the old Midvale Steel plant to ruffle your feathers over, rather than some carbon monoxide from a natural gas generator.

This project is almost funding itself. Do these protesters mind paying for solar panels and windmills at the expense of a tax hike or fare hike?

I wonder how many protesters own a gasoline powered vehicle, or live in a home with oil or natural gas heat. Or wear clothing made in a sweat shop, using child labor, then shipped half way across the globe (using fossil fuels to propel the ships and trucks) so we can buy $19.99 denim jeans $5.00 T-shirts and use the rest of our money to buy cheap electronics.

Don't these hippie democrats also want lots of middle class jobs? This type of project supports construction workers, electricians, and pipe fitters to make the generating station. The fuel is supplied from gas wells leased and drilled right here in the Commonwealth. The workers who will run and maintain the generating plant will also be hired locally. Jobs jobs jobs.

But they want to protest emissions from a gas plant in an area that is zoned heavy industrial, and has been since after the civil war. These people are every bit hypocrites as the republicans they trash.

Everybody in this Millenial generation loves to point the finger and hold protests, but they don't have any solutions or honest fact-based discussions to brainstorm solutions to their "first world" problems.


Battery arrays which can store a LOT of energy! Things have changed since you boomers were around, we have the ability to store multiple megawatts of battery energy, have a clean fuel cell array and buy solar and wind to keep this place topped off since this is a peaker and not primary 25hz/60hz mains power. Do you even know about modern mainline generation?
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Re: SEPTA Power Plant Proposal backlash

Postby NorthPennLimited » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:48 pm

Aren’t batteries made with heavy metals like lead, mercury, cadmium, etc?

How good are these heavy metals to the surrounding communities around the factories that produce these batteries? When these batteries leak at the storage site next to the solar farm, what happens when those heavy metals get into the ground water and surrounding watersheds?

Don’t believe everything you hear on TV and from your teacher. I’m sure someday we will learn there are negatives to solar, wind, and battery power.

A long time ago, we were all told nuclear power was the bee’s knees for clean electrical power. Then in the 70’s we had a radioactive leak at TMI, and in the 80’s we realized we need a place to store spent nuclear fuel rods without turning the neighboring community into mutants. Nobody wanted a disposal site in their state, then when we built one in Nevada, nobody wanted the spent nuclear fuel traveling through their communities.

My point is, as you youngsters spend more time on this spinning ball, you will see schools of thought constantly shift 180 degrees. And politicians from both sides of the aisle are full of crap. 90% of what you see on C-Span is theatrical. They don’t do anything for their constituents unless (1) an election is coming or (2) the bill they are proposing will get them or their political donors rich. Our system is broken, but it’s the best system money can buy.
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