Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby AlexC » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:47 pm

None of these posts have anything to do with naming rights.
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"Verizon" Station

Postby R3 Passenger » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:07 am

We have talked about Suburban Station being renamed Verizon Station. It appears that there is *not* going to be a name change, but a $7 million ad deal was struck with Verizon to cover improvements to Suburban Station and plaster it with Verizon ads.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/2 ... oards.html
Paul Nussbaum, Philadelphia Inquirer wrote:Three wall-size video schedule boards for Regional Rail passengers in Suburban Station are the centerpiece of a deal between SEPTA and Verizon worth at least $7 million to the transit agency.

SEPTA will receive $7 million over three years in the advertising deal, with two three-year options that could bring the nine-year total to $24 million, SEPTA spokeswoman Jerri Williams said.

I actually prefer this arrangement versus temporarily renaming stations outright.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby Jersey_Mike » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:51 pm

Oh man that is a thumb in Comcast's eye.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby ChrisinAbington » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:00 pm

A chance to double-dip though. What with Brian Roberts do to compete? Perhaps buy naming rights?
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Re: "Verizon" Station

Postby JeffK » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:12 pm

R3 Passenger wrote:I actually prefer this arrangement versus temporarily renaming stations outright.

I concur completely. It makes a positive contribution for riders without the disruption and perceived (?) arrogance of erasing a name that's been known around the country for nearly a century. IMO that's far better advertising for the host company - everybody gains something.

ChrisinAbington wrote:A chance to double-dip though. What with Brian Roberts do to compete? Perhaps buy naming rights?

"Comcast Station!" "Verizon Station!" "Comcast Station!" "Duck Season!" "Wabbit Season!"
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby Flyer78 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:19 pm

ChrisinAbington wrote:A chance to double-dip though. What with Brian Roberts do to compete? Perhaps buy naming rights?


I would bet there is something in the contract language that protects Verizon from that happening.

Of course, isn't the station featuring xfinity wifi?
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby R3 Passenger » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:37 pm

It's probably a wise idea to not let Verizon get the naming rights for Suburban Station given that SEPTA is a government enterprise, and how much political clout and money Comcast has in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania.

Alternatively, I think the more entertaining question is if Comcast will slather the new World Trade Center PATH station with Comcast ads in retaliation.

(And, for the record, I would not be opposed to the City Hall/15th Street Station being permanently renamed "Comcast Central Station" if Comcast were to pony up some dough for remodeling.)
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby JeffK » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:43 pm

R3 Passenger wrote:... I would not be opposed to the City Hall/15th Street Station being permanently renamed "Comcast Central Station" if Comcast were to pony up some dough for remodeling.

The more I think about the issue, the less I'm in favor of selling naming rights.

First, stations' names generally have a strong relation to their locations. That's a big help in determining where you are, especially for the vast majority of stations that aren't line endpoints. Of course there are plenty of Central Stations and Union Stations but they're almost invariably termini of some sort.

Second, the likelihood that a station could permanently retain a specific corporate entity's name is very low. Companies merge and divest like bubbles in a 70's lava lamp - the last firm I worked for had four different names in 15 years. Each time, a corporate station would gain a new name requiring new maps, new signs, and an adjustment period for riders. Maybe it's not hugely expensive but it's still disruptive.

Third (and yeah, this is a purely personal grumble) the practice has the flavor of renamings that occur in unstable countries after a revolution or invasion. The new guys use what I call the "male dog" approach, obliterating what was there before no matter how meaningful it is. Nizhny Novgorod becomes Gorky, Saigon becomes Ho Chi Minh City, Chemnitz becomes Karl-Marx-Stadt, the Great Buddhas are dynamited, and on and on. Granted "Comcast Station" isn't anywhere near the same level but it still represents a takeover by outside interests.

That said, I would be in favor of the way Verizon proposes getting its name before the public. Fixing the place up and plastering its walls with Verizon equipment, ads, etc. benefits the riders and the company without wiping out the station's core identification.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby trackwelder » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:31 pm

JeffK wrote:
R3 Passenger wrote:... I would not be opposed to the City Hall/15th Street Station being permanently renamed "Comcast Central Station" if Comcast were to pony up some dough for remodeling.

The more I think about the issue, the less I'm in favor of selling naming rights.

First, stations' names generally have a strong relation to their locations. That's a big help in determining where you are, especially for the vast majority of stations that aren't line endpoints. Of course there are plenty of Central Stations and Union Stations but they're almost invariably termini of some sort.

Second, the likelihood that a station could permanently retain a specific corporate entity's name is very low. Companies merge and divest like bubbles in a 70's lava lamp - the last firm I worked for had four different names in 15 years. Each time, a corporate station would gain a new name requiring new maps, new signs, and an adjustment period for riders. Maybe it's not hugely expensive but it's still disruptive.

Third (and yeah, this is a purely personal grumble) the practice has the flavor of renamings that occur in unstable countries after a revolution or invasion. The new guys use what I call the "male dog" approach, obliterating what was there before no matter how meaningful it is. Nizhny Novgorod becomes Gorky, Saigon becomes Ho Chi Minh City, Chemnitz becomes Karl-Marx-Stadt, the Great Buddhas are dynamited, and on and on. Granted "Comcast Station" isn't anywhere near the same level but it still represents a takeover by outside interests.

That said, I would be in favor of the way Verizon proposes getting its name before the public. Fixing the place up and plastering its walls with Verizon equipment, ads, etc. benefits the riders and the company without wiping out the station's core identification.



i agree, on all accounts. especially your final point. i think modern advertising is a little garish but it is what it is, and if they want to pony up some dough for exclusive advertising rights that's fine. city hall/15th st station is pretty self explanatory; (insert corporate name here) station require a lot of explanation.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby JeffK » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:17 pm

trackwelder wrote:
JeffK wrote:
R3 Passenger wrote:I agree, on all accounts. especially your final point. i think modern advertising is a little garish but it is what it is, and if they want to pony up some dough for exclusive advertising rights that's fine. city hall/15th st station is pretty self explanatory; (insert corporate name here) station require a lot of explanation.

Thanks for the props - very much appreciated! Correct, my main gripe about corporate names is that they run counter to making a system simple and intuitive.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby Nasadowsk » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:07 am

trackwelder wrote: city hall/15th st station is pretty self explanatory; (insert corporate name here) station require a lot of explanation.


People got used to Longacre Square being called Times Square after a while. The Times isn't there anymore. It hasn't been renamed.

Penn Station in NY is still Penn Station. The PRR hasn't existed since the before Vietnam War ended. The name's stuck.

Grand Central Terminal is still Grand Central. The NY Central doesn't exist anymore.

The numbers are still the IRT, the letters are the BMT or IND. None have existed in 50 years.

Sure it's NYC examples I'm citing. I'm sure there's plenty in Philly too. After all, is there still a bank at the PSFS building? Wanamaker's still around?
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby ExCon90 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:49 pm

The PSFS building is now a Loew's Hotel, but the large neon PSFS letters are still on top (or were the last time I looked). Wanamaker's is now Macy's, having had a few other names in between as it changed ownerships. There was once a highway sign directing motorists to PRR 30th St. Station which was only changed a relatively few years ago. I think it was still there after Penn Central ended. One more New York example, however, is that there is no Avenue of the Americas subway line of the former IND. Sixth Avenue was renamed Avenue of the Americas by Mayor La Guardia shortly after the end of World War II and never caught on, although the street signs won't admit it.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby MichaelBug » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:45 am

ExCon90 wrote:The PSFS building is now a Loew's Hotel, but the large neon PSFS letters are still on top (or were the last time I looked). Wanamaker's is now Macy's, having had a few other names in between as it changed ownerships. There was once a highway sign directing motorists to PRR 30th St. Station which was only changed a relatively few years ago. I think it was still there after Penn Central ended. One more New York example, however, is that there is no Avenue of the Americas subway line of the former IND. Sixth Avenue was renamed Avenue of the Americas by Mayor La Guardia shortly after the end of World War II and never caught on, although the street signs won't admit it.



While the flagship Wanamaker store on Market Street is now Macy's (on the first three floors) - the building which houses it is still officially known as The Wanamaker Building. (There is office space on the 4th through 12th floors.) My office space is there.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby GCarp » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:11 pm

ExCon90 wrote:The PSFS building is now a Loew's Hotel, but the large neon PSFS letters are still on top (or were the last time I looked).


Not anymore... They were taken down around the middle of December or so. Saw it on the news. They actually had problems taking them down and almost dropped one of the letters as they were moving it.
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Re: Sales of SEPTA Station Naming Rights

Postby westernfalls » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:04 pm

GCarp wrote:
ExCon90 wrote:The PSFS building is now a Loew's Hotel, but the large neon PSFS letters are still on top (or were the last time I looked).


Not anymore... They were taken down around the middle of December or so. Saw it on the news. They actually had problems taking them down and almost dropped one of the letters as they were moving it.

Ummm, no, that was PNB; PSFS is still there. But we wander far astray.
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