freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby NorthPennLimited » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:18 am

I heard a rumor from a SEPTA employee that CSX and SEPTA are in talks to build a 4th track between Woood and Neshaminy to allow both railroads to have double track operations and increase fluidity.

They are waiting for cost estimates for track, catenary, interlocking configuration, PTC, undergrade bridge engineering studies, and station reconstruction.

I guess it's not an option for CSX to run up the Blue Line at night and come back onto their RR at CP Wood to bypass trains working Woodbourne Yard?
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby glennk419 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:48 am

NorthPennLimited wrote:I heard a rumor from a SEPTA employee that CSX and SEPTA are in talks to build a 4th track between Woood and Neshaminy to allow both railroads to have double track operations and increase fluidity.

They are waiting for cost estimates for track, catenary, interlocking configuration, PTC, undergrade bridge engineering studies, and station reconstruction.

I guess it's not an option for CSX to run up the Blue Line at night and come back onto their RR at CP Wood to bypass trains working Woodbourne Yard?


Back in Reading days, there were four tracks between Neshaminy and Woodbourne. The fourth track was ripped out in the early 60's. The track that was removed was the No. 4 ( westernmost ) track which means that would have to be relaid and SEPTA basically shifted over. This would require considerable realignment of Neshaminy and Langhorne stations along with the associated interlockings. Good news is that the ROW is wide enough. Doable, yes...expensive, yes!
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Silverliner II » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:53 am

No, the Blue Line is not an option for CSX. The road locomotives alone would not clear the overhead between Fern Rock and Melrose Park on its own, never mind hi-cube freight cars. Back in 2000, I shot the line with a C40-8 around 66th Avenue, and that was the end of power that big heading up to Lansdale.

Tis not a rumor. I've seen the CSX copies of the track diagrams they envision, labeled as "Phase 2 of the Wood-West Trenton Separation Project". SEPTA would construct a new track from south of Woodbourne Station to Neshaminy Falls Station. Thus, their tracks would shift south of Woodbourne and the current SEPTA #2 track would become CSX #1 track. Neshaminy interlocking would have to be reconstructed, and Neshaminy Falls station relocated a few hundred feet south of its current location to allow room to shift the SEPTA tracks back to their current alignment. One bridge would have to be reconstructed in the 4th track alignment, along with some backfill done north of BCIP switch, and Langhorne station would have to have its platform demolished and cut back to open up space for the 4th track. CSX would get a new interlocking between their two tracks south of Langhorne, a second crossover to form universal crossovers at CP-Nesh, and the second track would go back into the single track just south of Woodbourne station as the SEPTA tracks shift over.

Very doable, and very expensive as said above, yes. And with new management in Jacksonville, in limbo with no timetable for a start or finish.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby mcgrath618 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:50 am

Bit late to the party here, but is there a specific time that CSX C746 is around Glenside station every night? I can't find any info on its times anywhere.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Limited-Clear » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:44 pm

It doesn't come down to Glenside every night, you would need to listen to your scanner and see if they get a form D to operate on the Stoney Creek branch from Dale to Elm, if you hear that roll over and go back to sleep, if they come down to Glenside (and on to Jenkintown) the dispatcher may ask them where they are running round their train, too long and they leave the train south of Jenkintown and take the engines to Fern Rock.

Also I heard they were woodbourne to Lansdale on one night then make the return trip the next night, I'll have to confirm that though.

I usually hear them between 11pm and 2am when making their moves.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Silverliner II » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:59 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:Bit late to the party here, but is there a specific time that CSX C746 is around Glenside station every night? I can't find any info on its times anywhere.

Aside from their sign-up time around 8pm, which route they go depends on whether they have hi-cubes or not. If no high cars, they'll run via the Neshaminy and Main Lines, otherwise, they will run via the NS Morrisville Line, through Norristown, and the Stony Creek Branch to Lansdale. The job also tends to only operate one-way each night as of late due to certain CSX rules regarding push-pull locomotive operation causing delays when having to reverse direction at Jenkin.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby NorthPennLimited » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:35 pm

From a cost standpoint:

Wouldn't it be cheaper for the freight railroads concerned with the Lansdale cluster to undercut and raise catenary clearances at the places that prohibit running hig cube cars to Lansdale from Woodbourne & Philadelphia?

I imagine it would be cheaper than maintaining the Stony Creek Branch as well as installing PTC.

As a side benefit, CSX would gain a detour route between CP Wood and CP Nice if the right of way on the West Trenton Line - Blue Line route was cleared for high cube cars, if there was a shutdown on the Trenton Line between those 2 points.

Lastly, why can't CSX run trains push/pull when they run via Jenkintown? Seems like a faster move, rather than running around the train between Jenkintown and Fern Rock. All the old CR shifters ran push-pull out of Lansdale.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:47 pm

CSX had an accident that involved the trailing loco had not been set up properly to trail along at the end of the local freight.
somebody got injuried by that trailing loco. Believe it was how the trailing loco's air brakes were set up was found to be the cause.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Silverliner II » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:40 pm

Backshophoss wrote:CSX had an accident that involved the trailing loco had not been set up properly to trail along at the end of the local freight.
somebody got injuried by that trailing loco. Believe it was how the trailing loco's air brakes were set up was fund to be the cause.

And rather that remind and re-instruct, they made a new rule that prohibits unoccupied locomotives from being in the middle or rear of trains, except when in DPU mode.

As for the Stony Creek, that is PTC-exempt. Also, besides cost and time of undercutting the needed sections of the Main and Neshaminy Lines, the low speed limit for freight trains, plus CSX locomotives not being ACSES-equipped in the future precludes CSX from running mainline freights via SEPTA even for detours (and if they could, it could only be done overnight due to the monstrous lengths of the trains.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Limited-Clear » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:57 am

C746 ran down to Jenkintown last night, heard them in the area around 12:30 am, two engines and about 15 cars, ran around at Jenkintown then made their way back up the Neshaminy line to Wood and onto CSX at CP TL where they reverse back into Woodbourne yard
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby glennk419 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:02 pm

Limited-Clear wrote:C746 ran down to Jenkintown last night, heard them in the area around 12:30 am, two engines and about 15 cars, ran around at Jenkintown then made their way back up the Neshaminy line to Wood and onto CSX at CP TL where they reverse back into Woodbourne yard


I heard them as well, good sounding horn at Rydal Road. First time I've heard them in a while, or maybe just because the windows were cracked. :wink:
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Re:

Postby RDG467 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:24 am

gravelyfan wrote:Thanks for all the info. Are there any good on-line maps (schematics, track charts, whatever) that show these various locations (both in RDG era and today)?


CR's ZTS Maps show Wayne Jct. in the late 80's- early 90's timeframe. The Barriger photo collection on Flicker has some great shots (from an Observation Car) of Frankford Jct, Newtown Jct, Tabor Jct, portions of the Blue Line Jct, the Falls Bridge and Park Jct. Here's a view coming down the BL Branch. The 9th St. Branch is on the right. The yard on the left is now Roberts Yard, but it's original function was to serve Midvale Steel.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Limited-Clear » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:31 pm

Last night April 13th (morning of April 14th) C746 was going from CP TL (CSX) across Septa and onto NS for the run down to Ford (they then go round to Elm down the Stoney creek to Dale), at the same time PN W230 was turning their train at Carmel to go up to Johnsville (north of street road on the warminster line), all heard around midnight.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby glennk419 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:24 pm

Limited-Clear wrote:Last night April 13th (morning of April 14th) C746 was going from CP TL (CSX) across Septa and onto NS for the run down to Ford (they then go round to Elm down the Stoney creek to Dale), at the same time PN W230 was turning their train at Carmel to go up to Johnsville (north of street road on the warminster line), all heard around midnight.


PN must have taken their time, they didn't come through Roslyn until about 2:00.
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Re: freight access R3 West T & R5 Lansdale?

Postby Limited-Clear » Tue May 02, 2017 1:06 am

The PN train W230 did its usual run from Lansdale to Johnsville tonight (May 1st), they were around Glenside approx 12:20am, however they also had the 2 ex CSX B36-7s in tow, looks like they are getting them up to New Hope so hopefully they will be pulling trains soon too, maybe a photo opportunity if they move them in daylight up the branch.
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