SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby jamesinclair » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:23 pm

I am going to Philly tomorrow. I plan on purchasing my tickets from an NJT machine and transfer in Trenton to Septa. I hope they let me get off downtown.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby Head-end View » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:31 pm

You won't have a problem. There is no restriction on exiting thru the new turnstiles. :-D
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby jamesinclair » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:01 am

I got off at Jefferson and exited through the emergency exit gate, which was propped open. No staff was around. Surprised to see that the station had turnstiles but no fare machines.
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OP/ED: The SEPTA Key system punishes poor commuters

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:33 pm

http://www2.philly.com/philly/opinion/c ... 81119.html

Another OP/ED article...

A majority of SEPTA riders live outside of Center City and ride a bus, making it tough to find loading zones. SEPTA has offered an alternative to in-person loading — registering your card to an online account, where you can add money with a debit or credit card. But that's hard for un- or under-banked Philadelphians, who make up an estimated 28 percent of the city[.]
[...]
These commuters who can't conveniently purchase or reload their Key cards end up having to pay more. The Key cost is $2 per ride, while the cash fare is $2.50, a 25 percent increase. The surcharge for a transfer is even higher, at 150 percent. It's $1 with a Key card, $2.50 without. If riders don't own a Key card, or have too low a balance, they have to pay $2.50 for the first ride plus an additional $2.50 for the connecting. A Key card rider pays $6 for a round trip, while a cash rider pays $10.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby Ryand-Smith » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:54 pm

I feel like if they had say an app with NFC which both iOS and Android support via Apple Pay and Android Pay/Samsung Pay it wouldn't be bad as most modern phones support NFC (and I mean 4 year old iPhone SEs do and the S7 does), which means it would be great to say make a virtual Key card that you can put money on. They should have partnered with check cashing places to give them a supply of key cards and a basic loader (I could literally make one with an NFC reader, a 100 dollar android tablet, and internet access), and give them out to check cashing places which have late hours so you can say cash your check, load your Key card or use the App to make a virtual key card to pay.

An easy technical problem to solve.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:24 am

Ryand-Smith wrote:They should have partnered with check cashing places to give them a supply of key cards and a basic loader (I could literally make one with an NFC reader, a 100 dollar android tablet, and internet access), and give them out to check cashing places which have late hours so you can say cash your check, load your Key card [...]


^^^This!

All the SEPTA Key is basically a piece of plastic with an RFID chip inside. All the major hotel companies have had this tech to be able to program and load a simple account access structure on such a card. But apparently somewhere high-up on the dev/ops chain, somebody never took the end-user into account.

They key card interface toward the consumer still does not give pertinent info/access like...

* Remaining balance for "Travel Wallet" transactions.

* Indication of what type of fare product is currently loaded.

* An ability to make any sort of quick, on-board transactions.

It's like all testing concerns were ignored before public consumption. And apparently, the Key is *STILL* a work-in-progress. :(
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby dcipjr » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:01 am

Is there any ETA on when the Key will be able to do trips on the Regional Rail?
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:15 am

dcipjr wrote:Is there any ETA on when the Key will be able to do trips on the Regional Rail?


Zone 1 and 2 trailpasses aren't even able to be loaded on a Key card yet--only zone 3 and 4/Anywhere so far. Travel Wallet use on rail seems like a distant pipe dream at this point. I hear you can add an Independence Pass on the card, but it's only via the currently clunky website. :-/
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:22 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:The current topic on the SEPTA Key has been dormant for a couple of weeks ...MACTRAXX

OK, bumping the thread ... based on what I'm hearing, it looks like SEPTA no longer plans to install TVMs / kiosks at most outlying RRD stations. That leaves occasional and discretionary riders pretty much in the same straits they were pre-Key; i.e. if you can't get a card or ticket in advance, you're stuck paying cash on-board - including of course the surcharge. Bottom line, non-"ideal" riders get shafted and conductors still have to process cash. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that, given all of the Key's missteps, yet another one isn't causing more of a fuss no matter how inconvenient it is for riders.

The imbalance on the transit side seems no closer to resolution, either: https://www.metro.us/news/local-news/philadelphia/some-riders-still-struggling-to-adapt-to-septa-key
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby sammy2009 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:26 pm

JeffK wrote:
MACTRAXX wrote:The current topic on the SEPTA Key has been dormant for a couple of weeks ...MACTRAXX

OK, bumping the thread ... based on what I'm hearing, it looks like SEPTA no longer plans to install TVMs / kiosks at most outlying RRD stations. That leaves occasional and discretionary riders pretty much in the same straits they were pre-Key; i.e. if you can't get a card or ticket in advance, you're stuck paying cash on-board - including of course the surcharge. Bottom line, non-"ideal" riders get shafted and conductors still have to process cash. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that, given all of the Key's missteps, yet another one isn't causing more of a fuss no matter how inconvenient it is for riders.

The imbalance on the transit side seems no closer to resolution, either: https://www.metro.us/news/local-news/philadelphia/some-riders-still-struggling-to-adapt-to-septa-key


I'm not surprised, SEPTA never intended to add TVM's to outlying railroad stations. Which i think is so stupid on many levels. They are missing the point of making their fare system accessible in anyway possible. If they was smart, they would have developed a ticket app for mobile devices for people whom cant access a ticket vending machine. They are so slow.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:30 pm

The link posted by JeffK makes it clear that SEPTA isn't going to change its mind:

"... over time, everyone will learn the ins and outs of the new system. ... we want our customers to understand how to use the system."

Tone deaf.

And where Regional Rail is concerned, one of the original objectives was to get cash off the trains.
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby Head-end View » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:30 pm

Is it possible that SEPTA has gotten a reality check and realized that it's just not feasible to completely eliminate cash-on-train fares? After all even LIRR still sells cash-on-train fares even though they have TVM's at almost all commuter stations (which accept both cash and credit/debit cards) :-D
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:55 pm

Head-end View wrote:Is it possible that SEPTA has gotten a reality check and realized that it's just not feasible to completely eliminate cash-on-train fares?

I’d say no. You’d rationally* expect them to at least try to minimize on-board cash, but I can’t see how things will be much different from the pre-Key days. No TVMs at most stations and limited options for open payment is where the RRD's been for decades, so I don’t see any way the number of cash fares is gonna drop much if at all.

* Sorry. For a moment I forgot and put "rational" and "Key" in the same paragraph ...
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffersonLeeEng » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:35 am

Also, SEPTA is planning on accepting contactless payment options like chip/rfid-enabled credit cards and apple pay (probably after full implementation for loading zone 1/2 trailpasses and enabling "travel wallet" usage on regional rail), but they'll play the "Gotcha game" by marking up fares by at least 50 cents for non-Key transactions. Why? Because...

I assume it'll be a similar situation when they finally get around to developing/rolling out their own mobile app for payment and updating their current (and mostly useless) website for the Keycard...
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Re: SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

Postby JeffK » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:35 pm

The last I heard (several months ago) is that if and when e-payment is implemented those fares will be treated the same as cash; i.e. 50¢ extra and no transfers on the transit side and the %$#! surcharge will still apply on the RRD. However SEPTA's been conspicuously silent on anything related to e-payment recently, so it's anyone's guess what the final policies will be. In any case non-Key riders are still in the same boat they've always been - - - except that it has a few more leaks.
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