Independence pass on AM peak trains...

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Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:32 am

Today I'm riding to doylestown extra early from Langhorne via jenkintown. Even though the train from Langhorne is an AM peak train, I really feel since my destination is doylestown I should be able to only purchase the pass & not an additional 2 zone ticket.

I don't think this is unreasonable, especially due to the length of the trip (well over 2 hours) and the need to change trains with a clear risk of missing in-line connections with the sparse RRD intervals at jenkintown.

I think this should apply to warminster, west trenton & lan/doy trains as well as trips involving a transfer at Wayne junction or north Philly.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby scotty269 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:58 pm

What's happening?
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Limited-Clear » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:36 pm

North Philly is considered a center city station therefore would never be allowed under your scenario, also if someone is riding through center city ie, langhorne to Chester, should they be allowed to use the independence pass? If so how do you control it and actually differentiate between someone changing trains at suburban and someone saying they are going through and getting off and ending their journey at suburban? It seems unfair for what you need it for, but it brings fairness to everyone who buys a full price round trip.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Amtrak7 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:39 pm

North Philadelphia as a transfer point shouldn't be allowed. But I do agree that travel on AM peak trains that does not go into or through Center City should be permitted on the Independence Pass.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Matthew Mitchell » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:59 pm

By the letter of the tariff, the Independence Pass is not good for any travel, even intermediate, on inbound peak(*) trains. I would say we'd work on an exception for intermediate and via Jenkintown/Wayne Junction travel, but it's gonna be made moot by NPT.

The good news is your trips will be effectively free, or at least you'll only have to pay for the outbound leg (if you're caught) under NPT.


*--"peak" was done away with in the 2010 tariffs, but we mean trains scheduled to arrive in Center City at or before 9:30 am.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:04 pm

I say north philly because you can change between the PRR side and RDG side, but sure i guess you could limit it up to wayne junction.

NPT isn't going to help me because i pay with cash. You can't put cash value on a keyfob or card without going to an agent or some kind of fare machine. The stations here close at like 12:30 pm, it's ridiculous. So, i think changing it so you can use it on through trains but not to go through CC would be ideal.

And for reference, the train i got from langhorne was the 8:05 west trenton line inbound, and there were plenty of people who boarded with me, and there were still seats left at jenkintown.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Clearfield » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:15 pm

25Hz wrote:NPT isn't going to help me because i pay with cash.


Cash is currently, and will probably continue to be (under NPT) the most expensive possible way for you to pay for your trip.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:51 pm

Clearfield wrote:
25Hz wrote:NPT isn't going to help me because i pay with cash.


Cash is currently, and will probably continue to be (under NPT) the most expensive possible way for you to pay for your trip.


That's my point. Not everyone has a credit or debit card they can use. I get $ to ride the morning before i head out. There is no possibility of advanced purchase.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Matthew Mitchell » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:02 pm

25Hz wrote:NPT isn't going to help me because i pay with cash. You can't put cash value on a keyfob or card without going to an agent or some kind of fare machine.

You will be able to load value online, with SEPTA's NPT system, and even set up an automatic reload if you want.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:02 am

Matthew Mitchell wrote:
25Hz wrote:NPT isn't going to help me because i pay with cash. You can't put cash value on a keyfob or card without going to an agent or some kind of fare machine.

You will be able to load value online, with SEPTA's NPT system, and even set up an automatic reload if you want.


So i put the money in through the computer screen before i head into town to catch the bus...?
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Patrick Boylan » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:00 am

I got the impression from some of your other threads that you have an internet connected phone. At least you've often apologized for typos that you blamed on trying to type on the phone. Are you saying that you have an internet capable phone, but do not have a credit card?
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby Limited-Clear » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:26 am

Now that this thread has veered so far off the original I think I can add this without upsetting the mods, you say you only use cash but only get it right before travel? Are you a minor who get an allowance as needed? If so you need to explain to your peers the change that is coming so they can use a credit card, bank card or take cash to a location that accepts it, if I am wrong on that assumption then I fail to see how you are living hour by hour, some people manage day to day (I have in the past), but still made time to get to a station or place to pay for item without using cash, or used cash after planning my day.

If you get cash on the day of travel you need to condition yourself to reload your card after the first trip coming in when you would be near an open location.

What I'm saying is if you want to make it work you can (just like everyone else, adjustment is required) but if you are dead set of it not working for you then it wont
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:48 pm

Limited-Clear wrote:Now that this thread has veered so far off the original I think I can add this without upsetting the mods, you say you only use cash but only get it right before travel? Are you a minor who get an allowance as needed? If so you need to explain to your peers the change that is coming so they can use a credit card, bank card or take cash to a location that accepts it, if I am wrong on that assumption then I fail to see how you are living hour by hour, some people manage day to day (I have in the past), but still made time to get to a station or place to pay for item without using cash, or used cash after planning my day.

If you get cash on the day of travel you need to condition yourself to reload your card after the first trip coming in when you would be near an open location.

What I'm saying is if you want to make it work you can (just like everyone else, adjustment is required) but if you are dead set of it not working for you then it wont


No, i'm not a minor hahahaha. I live 1.4 miles from my bank, same distance to bus, the 2 places are across the lane in the shopping center from each other (i catch the bus at 4 west road). I usually get there 10-20 minutes before the bus is scheduled to arrive. Deposits take one business day to show up, so if i walked the hour round trip on say a saturday, i'd not have the funds till tuesday. I get the $ the morning of the trip... do you see how this is a problem? Not everyone has a bank account and huge numbers of people don't have a debit or credit card. This isn't just about me. It just seems like it's a way to penalize people who have limited means.
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby JeffK » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:25 pm

Could you at least get a family member or friend to front you a little money to get out SEPTA's cash-surcharge trap? Once you'd bought tickets or tokens in advance you'd be saving on a more regular basis - 45¢ each way on the bus and a buck or two on the train. Those savings could go towards future purchases and repayment of what you borrowed. Otherwise you're caught in a cycle with no end.

And yes, I've raised concerns for a long time about the fact that NPT is designed to work best for riders who have those e-fund options available to them. As you pointed out so well, anyone who isn't already participating is going to be partially shut out and probably will have to pay more, the same way people who can't currently get tokens or who take the train when/where there's no ticket office get shafted. SEPTA is trying to maximize convenience for the largest number of its riders but their policies often seem to be designed to punish anyone who doesn't fit their idea of the "ideal commuter".
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Re: Independence pass on AM peak trains...

Postby 25Hz » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:34 am

JeffK wrote:Could you at least get a family member or friend to front you a little money to get out SEPTA's cash-surcharge trap? Once you'd bought tickets or tokens in advance you'd be saving on a more regular basis - 45¢ each way on the bus and a buck or two on the train. Those savings could go towards future purchases and repayment of what you borrowed. Otherwise you're caught in a cycle with no end.

And yes, I've raised concerns for a long time about the fact that NPT is designed to work best for riders who have those e-fund options available to them. As you pointed out so well, anyone who isn't already participating is going to be partially shut out and probably will have to pay more, the same way people who can't currently get tokens or who take the train when/where there's no ticket office get shafted. SEPTA is trying to maximize convenience for the largest number of its riders but their policies often seem to be designed to punish anyone who doesn't fit their idea of the "ideal commuter".


I ride 2 modes and 2 different RRD lines, you'd think they would make it easier for someone who goes completely out of their way (literally look at the 130-wtl-lan/doy routing vs 332/swamp road driving). I was just telling this to a customer service lady while i was waiting at jenkintowm thursday.... I literally go the opposite direction of my destination to hop on the train, then go into philadelphia, montgomery county and back into bucks county. I still don't understand how they could have won that north american transit award when a 20 minute drives takes them 2 hours, plus a massive 30-45 minute transfer wait time. Their services don't connect their modes dont connect... it is a big mess and then this NPT crap on top of it. I may not fit their ideal commuter idea, but i do spend 5 hours on their damn system those days i make the trip. In 5 hours i could take amtrak to see my friend in state college!!!!!!! The least they could do is let me specifically use my damn pass to get to where i'm going. Last thursday i got a ride to langhorne, arrived around 7:55 am, i didn't get home till 5:30 pm!!! I would have had to wake even earlier if i were to get the bus, by about an hour. Things have to change or i may need to stop riding at all. Don't get me wrong i love riding its relaxing, but it just totally takes up my entire day plus wasting my money when a pass should do the trick.
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