NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:27 am

time wrote:The Newark Light Rail service has good patronage in the morning and evenings, much like the rest of the NJT system. Most of the patrons are using it as a shuttle to/from Broad Street and Newark Penn/Gateway Center. However, there are a lot of Rutgers Business School students, professors and faculty that also utilize the service, and other business employees in the Washington Park area as well. As Newark grows (and if you have not been there recently, it's growing!) the service will become utilized even more. Hopefully they can increase service, especially in the off peak periods. It's useless for going to NJPAC at night, unless you're really dedicated or forced to travel by transit.

the real problem for me is that due to the lack of street light priority the low speeds combined with the large headways mean that unless you show up to the station 60 seconds before the train departs, 90% of the line is faster to get to by walking than by waiting for the train.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby time » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:05 am

Very true, as long as your destination isn't Penn Station from Broad Street or the reverse. Then you'll just get exercise, since walking - even with the headways - isn't going to be much faster. You could take a bus and probably get there faster, however. The interim stops are lame, especially Newark Penn to NJPAC and back. Much faster to walk, especially off-peak. Assuming you're physically able to walk.

I wish the service went down Broad Street, then turned at City Hall/Prudential Center, then cut back over to Raymond Boulevard and into Newark Penn. That would get more stops in and make it useful for more people along the line - especially the City Hall / Prudential Center stop. Alas, Pru Center didn't exist when the line was built.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:57 am

i mean, walking doesn't need to be faster – if it's on-par, the service has failed, in my eyes. i had a similar situation today here in Redwood City – I could wait 15 minutes for a bus and then have a 15-minute bus ride, or I could just walk and get there at the same time. the bus is pretty useless in that case.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby time » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:46 am

I would argue that just because a route could be walked within the time frame of a bus/light rail/subway could get you to the same point, it doesn't make the service useless or a failed service. Yes, it seems pointless to you to wait 15 minutes for a 15 minute ride. But, to someone with knee or back pain, that's well worth the wait. It's all perspective.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby SemperFidelis » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:28 pm

I could drive to New York a lot faster than the train from Port Jervis, but I still take the train. same goes for walking, especially in an area like Newark with a higher disability rate. Also, let's not forget those mooching disabled veterans...they always want rides everywhere when they could just walk... :wink:
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:46 pm

SemperFidelis wrote:I could drive to New York a lot faster than the train from Port Jervis, but I still take the train. same goes for walking, especially in an area like Newark with a higher disability rate. Also, let's not forget those mooching disabled veterans...they always want rides everywhere when they could just walk... :wink:

obviously there are portions of the population for whom such a service is useful, and obviously those with disabilities benefit significantly from some service vs. no service at all. that being said, disabled people are not the majority of the population, and I would think that transit should primarily target a majority of potential riders, not a minority. Access Link is an example of a service that's geared specifically toward those with disabilities.

also, the comparison to driving is completely different – i prefer train over driving too, within reason – but driving carries multiple costs (gas, parking, wear and tear on the car, stress, requires your undivided attention, etc) which walking simply lacks (if anything, walking is actually more beneficial for your health).
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby SemperFidelis » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:59 pm

Fair enough. Maybe not as apples-to-apples as I presented it. I know, being a trolley enthusiast and one of those whiny moochers who want a ride everywhere, that I'd rather ride than walk, but that's just me.

Of course, if we are to design a transit systefor usage by the majority of people, I would think that, especially in America, a light rail line that lets people avoid walking is a perfect fit for our demographics and slovenly lifestyle. I have neighbors that drive less than 700 feet to pick up thier kids from school rather than walk up the sidewalk to the school. Yeah, so any opportunity to be lazy and not healthy is a perfect fit for most of our people, in my very cynical opinion.

I think the service is a waste, don't get me wrong. I just hope it ends up as the southern end of a Newark Branch Light Rail to Paterson or Clifton or wherever.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:49 am

Remember the Newark-Elizabeth Light Rail? lol :wink:
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby philipmartin » Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:50 pm

SemperFidelis wrote:
I think the service is a waste, don't get me wrong. I just hope it ends up as the southern end of a Newark Branch Light Rail to Paterson or Clifton or wherever.

Building that Penn Station - Broad Street Station light rail always bothered me as being a big waste of money because because we had a perfectly good bus line doing it.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby ryanov » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:21 pm

Again: no we didn't. Traffic frequently inhibits bus traffic pretty badly. I live here; I'm not just guessing.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby kilroy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:38 pm

Yeah but you're more likely to find a box of eaten fried chicken bones on the bus than the light rail. I always found that it really enhances the commuting experience.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby time » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:09 am

I've been wondering... if NJT were to expand light rail service in Newark, what path would it take?

I could see light rail being a very good addition to the Ironbound, with connections at Penn Station. Space for it in those tight streets would of course be an issue.

Also, Light Rail originating in Belleville, running down Broadway, connecting at Broad Street Station, then continuing down the existing Broad Street ROW, a new section continuing straight down Broad Street to Lincoln park, then going up Clinton Ave., turning left at Elizabeth ave, and terminating somewhere near Weequahic park. There are a ton of busses that run that route, so the potential for ridership diversion is huge. I could see the Belleville to Newark Broad St. section also having a very high ridership, since that would connect to NJT rail to New York and Hoboken / Wall Street.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby amtrakowitz » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:19 pm

time wrote:I've been wondering... if NJT were to expand light rail service in Newark, what path would it take?

I could see light rail being a very good addition to the Ironbound, with connections at Penn Station. Space for it in those tight streets would of course be an issue.

Also, Light Rail originating in Belleville, running down Broadway, connecting at Broad Street Station, then continuing down the existing Broad Street ROW, a new section continuing straight down Broad Street to Lincoln park, then going up Clinton Ave., turning left at Elizabeth ave, and terminating somewhere near Weequahic park. There are a ton of buses that run that route, so the potential for ridership diversion is huge. I could see the Belleville to Newark Broad St. section also having a very high ridership, since that would connect to NJT rail to New York and Hoboken / Wall Street.

If the former Newark & New York branch of the CNJ were not demolished mostly, especially from East Ferry Street towards Broad Street (never mind the many bridges through to Kearny and Jersey City), the HBLR could have operated through into the Newark Arena.

The subway system originally included subway-surface routes (similar to SEPTA, and in some ways to Boston's Green Line and San Francisco's MUNI subway); the routes, which were converted to buses in the early 1950s, were/are 21 (Main Street, to West Orange) 23 (Central Avenue, now part of bus route 24) and 29 (Bloomfield Avenue, to West Caldwell) and the ramps leading to those former routes are still in evidence. There used to be a slogan on the side of the cars that read "Subway Car — Save Time And Parking".
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby kilroy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:25 pm

Also, Light Rail originating in Belleville, running down Broadway, connecting at Broad Street Station, then continuing down the existing Broad Street ROW, a new section continuing straight down Broad Street to Lincoln park, then going up Clinton Ave., turning left at Elizabeth ave, and terminating somewhere near Weequahic park. There are a ton of busses that run that route, so the potential for ridership diversion is huge. I could see the Belleville to Newark Broad St. section also having a very high ridership, since that would connect to NJT rail to New York and Hoboken / Wall Street.


Not sure if it is in this thread or one of the other's on this forum but using the ex-Erie Newark Branch to Nutley was originally planned/discussed and beaten down by the NIMBY's. Primary reason was that "those people" would take the light rail (and not steal a car in the auto-theft capital of NJ, and at one time, the world) to steal their big screen TVs.

Lot's of good ideas out there. All they take is the political will to push them through and boatloads of money, many boatloads of money.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby rr503 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:53 pm

What about the Newark Branch to the Boonton Line to Montclair? That ever been considered?
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