NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby SightUnseen » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:14 pm

The possibility of crime in suburbia and gentrification is a moot point until expansion happens (if it happens at all).
It will be interesting to see if there's push to expand or improve the NRL when the new Panasonic building is finished or when the new Prudential office towers get built since both are using the Urban Transit Hub tax credit.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby fishball » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:42 pm

this report was posted on the nj transit rail forum

http://media.nj.com/bergen_impact/other/1Q2013.pdf

there are some absolutely terrible ridership statistics for the broad st. station extension

Average weekday passenger boardings:
Performing Arts Center 43
Atlantic Street 4
Washington Park 323
Bears & Eagles Stadium 3
Broad Street Station 462

that's right. 3 people per day at the stadium stop, and 4 a day at atlantic st. compare this to davenport ave. at 514 boardings a day, and that's the least used station on the other newark light rail line.

it looks like the implementation of this line is severely flawed, with respect to station location. And it's probably a frequency issue too. what a waste of money.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby SightUnseen » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:23 pm

fishball wrote:this report was posted on the nj transit rail forum

http://media.nj.com/bergen_impact/other/1Q2013.pdf

there are some absolutely terrible ridership statistics for the broad st. station extension

Average weekday passenger boardings:
Performing Arts Center 43
Atlantic Street 4
Washington Park 323
Bears & Eagles Stadium 3
Broad Street Station 462

that's right. 3 people per day at the stadium stop, and 4 a day at atlantic st. compare this to davenport ave. at 514 boardings a day, and that's the least used station on the other newark light rail line.

it looks like the implementation of this line is severely flawed, with respect to station location. And it's probably a frequency issue too. what a waste of money.

Wow those numbers are telling
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:30 pm

fishball wrote:this report was posted on the nj transit rail forum

http://media.nj.com/bergen_impact/other/1Q2013.pdf

there are some absolutely terrible ridership statistics for the broad st. station extension

Average weekday passenger boardings:
Performing Arts Center 43
Atlantic Street 4
Washington Park 323
Bears & Eagles Stadium 3
Broad Street Station 462

that's right. 3 people per day at the stadium stop, and 4 a day at atlantic st. compare this to davenport ave. at 514 boardings a day, and that's the least used station on the other newark light rail line.

it looks like the implementation of this line is severely flawed, with respect to station location. And it's probably a frequency issue too. what a waste of money.

the stadium stop is literally less than a five-minute walk from the broad st. station. of course no one gets on there, what's the point? just walk to broad st. and board there.
atlantic st. is pretty similar. it's a 6-minute walk to broad st, so it makes minimal sense. in both of these cases, on average, you will get to your destination faster by walking than by waiting for the train and taking the train.
imho, atlantic st. should be closed, while the stadium station should be open for drop-off only on game days only. i wouldn't be surprised if the faster travel times actually got people to use the line more.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby fishball » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:35 pm

I'm not sure if the Newark Light Rail LRV cars are equipped with stop request buttons, but maybe a flag-stop type arrangement would be better for those stations. The trains are not going so fast so it would be easy for the operator to stop if someone is visible on the platform. And plus, it would also speed up the travel time for people going to broad st. to skip those stops
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:33 pm

fishball wrote:I'm not sure if the Newark Light Rail LRV cars are equipped with stop request buttons, but maybe a flag-stop type arrangement would be better for those stations. The trains are not going so fast so it would be easy for the operator to stop if someone is visible on the platform. And plus, it would also speed up the travel time for people going to broad st. to skip those stops

unless my memory is shot, i do remember stop request buttons in the cars.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby yoman82 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:31 am

Isn't the NLR Proof of Payment? I've never seen a ticket checker on there, maybe there could just be a lot of illegal riders? I personally see more than some of those numbers board at each station daily.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby amtrakowitz » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:18 am

yoman82 wrote:Isn't the NLR Proof of Payment? I've never seen a ticket checker on there, maybe there could just be a lot of illegal riders? I personally see more than some of those numbers board at each station daily.

The Newark Subway switched from on-board fare collection to POP in 1999, IIRC. This was while PCC cars still operated on the system and about two years before the Kinki-Sharyo LRVs replaced them.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby lensovet » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:28 am

yoman82 wrote:Isn't the NLR Proof of Payment? I've never seen a ticket checker on there, maybe there could just be a lot of illegal riders? I personally see more than some of those numbers board at each station daily.

don't forget these are average numbers. are you there every single day?
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby fishball » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:43 am

yoman82 wrote:Isn't the NLR Proof of Payment? I've never seen a ticket checker on there, maybe there could just be a lot of illegal riders? I personally see more than some of those numbers board at each station daily.


i wonder where those people that board at atlantic st. or the stadium are going. newark broad is only 1 or 2 blocks from each, and it's the end of the line. are they actually taking the train for such a short distance? or maybe theres a certain population of people who get on at the bears stadium, and stay on board at broad st. until the train leaves for penn station.

since these are boarding statistics only, i would not be surprised if the actual usage of these stops by people disembarking is somewhat higher because of the 1-way nature of the stops. the number of people getting off daily, just a guesstimate, might be in the double digits (maybe?).
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby yoman82 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:09 pm

lensovet wrote:
yoman82 wrote:Isn't the NLR Proof of Payment? I've never seen a ticket checker on there, maybe there could just be a lot of illegal riders? I personally see more than some of those numbers board at each station daily.

don't forget these are average numbers. are you there every single day?

Nope, but I can't imagine the ticket-checkers are either.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby alewifebp » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:55 am

I saw those figures for those stations as well. What I assumed, and I don't have any knowledge as to whether this is the case, is that is the total average for those stations. So let's say that out of 365 days a year, the stadium is used 100days. In those 100 days, let's say only about 20% (I'm being generous here) of those trips would actually serve the stadium station while it is in use. So we are talking about a much smaller pool of trips that they need to average out. If 500 people use that on a game day, by the time you divide it by the total days, you are left with very low numbers.

If this is the case, and it is used regularly, then it should be stopped at only on game days. No use slowing up the already slow line to pick or drop off no pax.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby amtrakowitz » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:34 am

fishball wrote:this report was posted on the nj transit rail forum

http://media.nj.com/bergen_impact/other/1Q2013.pdf

there are some absolutely terrible ridership statistics for the broad st. station extension

Average weekday passenger boardings:
Performing Arts Center 43
Atlantic Street 4
Washington Park 323
Bears & Eagles Stadium 3
Broad Street Station 462

that's right. 3 people per day at the stadium stop, and 4 a day at atlantic st. compare this to davenport ave. at 514 boardings a day, and that's the least used station on the other newark light rail line.

it looks like the implementation of this line is severely flawed, with respect to station location. And it's probably a frequency issue too. what a waste of money.

If anything is really and truly flawed on the City Subway, it is the insistence by NJT on eliminating flag stopping on the system. It worked just fine with the PCC cars and contributed to the superior average speeds. Either way, unpopular and lightly-used stops ought to be closed, especially given the expenditure on infrastructure and future maintenance needs if left in place (TVMs, shelters, non-utilitarian artwork and the like); special-use stations ought to be reduced to a more spartan and easily-maintained format with TVMs given special protection. (Never mind NJT cutting frequency in half when the LRVs replaced the PCCs; NJT would not like people to remember that.)

And yes, there are stop request push-strips on the Kinki-Sharyo cars for both the Newark and Hudson County light rail systems.
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby SightUnseen » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:05 am

Earlier this year I went out to the Newark Museum, the driver didn't even bother to stop at Atlantic St and Bears Eagles Stadium and went to Washington Park then Broad St.
Just about every light rail system with an arena or stadium as a stop has at least some stipulation about game days vs non game days, Newark shouldn't be any different.
I can't figure out why Atlantic st. Is underused
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Re: NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:15 pm

In part, with service every 15 minutes during busier hours, longer intervals at other times, if one misses the train it's just as fast to walk, except perhaps from end to end (and even end to end during off peak). So from any intermediate station to any other station on the branch, there is not much incentive to spend the money for a local trip.
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