NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

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NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

Postby orangeline » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:33 pm

Please forgive me if these are stupid questions, but I'm curious as to the probable operation of the NCS extension to Broad Street (DL&W) Station. What I infer from a recent NJT route map is that on leaving Penn Station, cars will turn right onto what was once the connection to the Cedar Street Subway and proceed north until Broad Street Station. On the return trip, cars will duck under the existing NCS tunnel and connect with the inbound track just before Penn Station.

My questions are:
  1. Will the extension be operated as part of the #7 line (NCS is the #7 "bus" route), or will it be a new route (#7B)?
  2. Will the existing unused outbound platforms at Penn Station be used for this service?
  3. If the NERL is built to EWR and Elizabeth, will the route run from Broad Street Station to Elizabeth via Penn Station, or will it be a third light rail line (#7C?) beginning/ending at Penn Station with connections to the other lines?
  4. I seem to recall comments about this in the old forum, but can the NCS ever be physically connected to the Hudson-Bergen light rail? I think someone wrote there were mechanical differences between the HBLR and NCS cars, but I'm not positive. Also, I suppose there could be difficulties with NJT operating the NCS while a contractor operates the Hudson-Bergen lines.
Any thoughts will be appreciated.
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Postby JLo » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:00 pm

4. I seem to recall comments about this in the old forum, but can the NCS ever be physically connected to the HB light rail? I think someone wrote there were mechanical differences between the HBLR and NCS cars, but I'm not positive. Also, I suppose there could be difficulties with NJT operating the NCS while a contractor operates the HB lines.


The only difference I can recall is that NCS vehicles use smaller wheels.
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Postby Ken W2KB » Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:38 pm

In thinking about it, using the same platform for both the 'mainline' and the extension would facilitate transfers.
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Postby Irish Chieftain » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:04 pm

Unlikely that the light rail service will have a number, or at least one displayed on the LRVs. "Route 7" no longer displays a number on the new Kinki-Sharyo LRVs, and what with the routes of the Newark Rail Link and Union County Rail Link (no longer officially known as "Newark-Elizabeth Rail Link") being radically different from the actual route 7, no alpha-suffixed variation of the 7 route number would be used anyhow...certainly, when the 21, 23, and 29 were part of the Newark Subway, they weren't called 7A, 7B and 7C. (Were you perhaps thinking of the Port Authority LRT in Pittsburgh, PA, where they do use such a system?)

Don't know if the route 7 platforms at Penn Station will be used; it's certainly feasible to use different platforms for inbound and outbound, what with the platforms no longer being used to store cars.

Right now, the only unbuilt extension that is funded is the one to EWR. Nothing into Elizabeth has been funded or indeed finalized. It certainly would be nice to see something running on the old CNJ main line, but the whole concept is currently fraught with NIMBYism and unfounded concerns, certainly relating to the possibility of extending the line to Cranford to connect with the RVL there.

As for connecting with HBLRT...would be nice if the current West Side Avenue line were re-extended into Newark via the old CNJ Newark & New York line, eh? but there's almost nothing left of that within Newark nowadays, most of it within Ironbound having been redeveloped. Via Bayonne? Conrail demolished the bridge across Newark Bay in the 1980s...(but Jeffrey Warsh, before he left, expressed a desire to see a tunnel under Newark Bay connecting the HBLRT and NRL/UCRL between Elizabeth and Bayonne; a pipe dream? Certainly right now). As for the mechanical differences between HBLRT and NCS LRVs, it supposedly relates to the size of the wheel flanges, and how the NCS apparently requires smaller flanges in order to negotiate the loop at Penn Station...(but then again, the HBLRT negotiates curves of similar radius within Jersey City, so I don't know who's right...)
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Postby JLo » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:03 am

According to the PA, it is considering including room for a transit line on its new Goethals Bridge. A line could easily run from any (Unfunded) Elizabeth-Union LRT, into SI, then across the Bayonne Bridge (already capable of handling a transit line) and connect with HBLR. Of course, the word is that the PA is trying figure out a way to raise the Bayonne Bridge because it is now a serious impediment to the next generation of freighters expected to make Port Newark a stop. Hopefully, it will not impair its use for mass transit.
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Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:29 pm

I would guess that the only way to modify the Bayonne Bridge would be jackup the steel portion higher above the concrete supports, similar to what was done to the sole remaining CNJ mainline track bridge over Route 1 in Elizabeth. If that's how it was to be done, the trolley capability would not be compromised. Might even be economic to put in the complete track support structure at the same time since the necessary construction structures and equipment would be there anyway.
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Postby Ken W2KB » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:06 pm

Opening of the extension is getting closer. Mulberry Street, which has been an open cut for close to two years, has been backfilled and curbing installed. It will probably be paved and reopened to motorvehicle traffic by year's end.
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Postby rail__debris » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:31 am

I have a question:

What will be the fare on the extension? the regular $1.10 or 50¢? Since the extension does operate downtown, should not the 50¢ fare apply?
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Postby Irish Chieftain » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:41 pm

Interesting question. They might try to weasel out of the 50¢ fare what with the extension not being part of route 7; but then again, they may use it as a promotional fare to get people to use it instead of a bus or taxi between Penn and BSS. Not that it matters during rush hours, when the special fare doesn't apply...
Last edited by Irish Chieftain on Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:02 am

Note that one can take any intrastate NJT bus at any time for 50 cents for the first zone by showing any NJT montly or weekly rail pass to the bus driver. So-called "feeder fare." Many of the passengers on the extension may have such passes.

The "Downtown Fare" had it orgins some 20 years or so ago when a survey was taken by college students of those walking along Raymond Boulevard (under which is the subway) to/from Penn Station. They asked at which price point (free, and up) would the person take the subway. My vague recollection is that 10 cents wound up being the number; the regular fare at the time was in the 60 or 70 cent range, roughly, I think.

Turned out that at 10 cents the revenue collections increased overall because so many rode and filled the cars that were previously running with many empty seats.

The same prinicple may apply to the extension, in that at 50 cents enough people will choose to ride rather than walk to result in higher revenues than a regular one-zone fare would bring in.
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Postby chuchubob » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:42 pm

Here's a photo showing construction progress at the new Broad Street Terminal, taken on Wednesday June 22.

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/NJT- ... 5_06_22_07

The former NCS Broad Street Station is now the Military Park Station.

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Postby Lackawanna484 » Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:52 am

Thanks, Bob.

The old Westinghouse building looks pretty dilapidated. If I had a nickel for every renewal plan announced there, I'd be quite wealthy.

I wonder who owns it now? Could be worth a pretty penny if that section of Newark ever comes back...
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Postby JLo » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:41 pm

Lots of progress, lately. Rails going in on Broad St. itself for the return leg to Penn Station. I suspect that they are trying to get the road bed and rails finished before the summer is over and heavy traffic returns to Broad St.
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Postby Nasadowsk » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:29 pm

Oddly , the Circle W sign still exists on one side. Wish I knew who owned it - it'd be a cool sign to have :(
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Postby JLo » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:35 pm

It must be hard to get down because everything else of value in the building (pipes, copper wire, etc.) has been stolen.
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