West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Fri May 20, 2016 2:41 pm

Actually, there has been a tremendous amount of discussion internally among CSX and all the region's agencies about the West Shore, which is being leveraged in the Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel Study, since freight diversion will allow space for passenger operation in Bergen County.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby TDowling » Sun May 22, 2016 11:41 pm

Cool. My idea that I had posted above was admittedly ambitious especially given the fact that it involved running passenger trains on the only major freight line in lower New York State. In hindsight, I would argue for passenger service at least as far as the NY/NJ border on the line EuroStar mentioned.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby EuroStar » Mon May 23, 2016 12:27 pm

What is Dead May Never Die (some railfans dreams)
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Tue May 24, 2016 8:39 am

West SHore Passenger Rail (especially only to Dumont) is certainly not dead. The proposed Intermodal Yard in Maspeth will reduce River Line Traffic considerably - that with the space for four tracks to Dumont, coupled with the massive congestion at PABT with the search for bus traffic volume reductions, regular passenger service to Dumont is a certainty after Gateway is open. Especially wince CSX, PANYNJ and NJDOT are in talks now.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue May 24, 2016 9:30 am

Why would Dumont need service? Wouldn't that be covered by the proposed, nearby HBLR? And I wonder how an intermodal yard in Queens, probably limited in size, would help River Line traffic.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Tue May 24, 2016 9:37 am

The freight capacity issues are real, but the portion needed for useful well-utilized passenger service (Ridgefield Park to Dumont) does not interfere much with freight operation since the railbed is wide enough for four tracks - especially if the concept is to link to the meadowlands station by building a spur along the turnpike, avoiding the congested area in North Bergen and the constrained railbed north of Dumont. These maps help to illustrate the corridor issues, attached to this post.

Regional Rail Ownership:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1LHQsfF7SllakxwUUhBNWcySUU/view?usp=sharing
Existing Network Level of Service:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1LHQsfF7SllZXpsc1ZTdDFfcDA
Last edited by michael.klatsky@gmail.com on Tue May 24, 2016 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Tue May 24, 2016 9:39 am

Jeff Smith wrote:Why would Dumont need service? Wouldn't that be covered by the proposed, nearby HBLR? And I wonder how an intermodal yard in Queens, probably limited in size, would help River Line traffic.


A 53m Sq Ft railyard might.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Tue May 24, 2016 9:57 am

Jeff Smith wrote:Why would Dumont need service? Wouldn't that be covered by the proposed, nearby HBLR? And I wonder how an intermodal yard in Queens, probably limited in size, would help River Line traffic.


The 14,948 daily bus riders on the NJ 155, 158, 167, 168 and 177 bus lines represent about 300 buses per day. removing 300 buses from PABT is a huge reduction strategy and the HBLR is only proposed to goto Englewood Hospital, which isn't really near Dumont, considering many in the area prefer to walk to transit rather than Park and Ride Facilities. Also, HBLR will deliver people to Hoboken, not necessarily midtown, which is where the bus currently goes.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby Ken W2KB » Tue May 24, 2016 4:11 pm

EuroStar wrote:What is Dead May Never Die (some railfans dreams)


You are confusing the high iron with the Iron Islands. ;-)
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby airman00 » Tue May 24, 2016 8:26 pm

If I remember correctly (going back into history) wasn't the CSX River Line 4-tracked up to Dumont and then double tracked from there? Regardless of passenger service or not there is room for expansion on the CSX river line. In fact in another thread there was/is rumors that CSX will double track the line from CP10-CP22. So while it would be nice to see a passenger train on the river line, I'd much prefer to see the line double tracked thru northern NJ.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby Steve F45 » Wed May 25, 2016 12:51 am

Where would trains be stored in Dumont or layed over? There is no room for anything to be built past 2 or even 3 tracks presently.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Wed May 25, 2016 2:07 pm

Of all the challenges, this one is the most difficult, but could be mitigated with a very long tail track, similiar to the way NYCT operates at some of their terminals.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby ExCon90 » Thu May 26, 2016 2:00 pm

The line was indeed 4 tracks to Dumont and 2 beyond, but nowadays many freight railroads (and I'm sure CSX is one) are requiring track centers to be farther apart than the formerly usual 13 feet.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Thu May 26, 2016 2:39 pm

Indeed, the railbed is 75'-80' wide.
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Re: West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

Postby michael.klatsky@gmail.com » Tue May 31, 2016 7:40 pm

The Orange County MPO asked about service restoration this past week at the Cross Harbor Meeting with them.
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