The Pascack Valley Line Thread

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The Pascack Valley Line Thread

Postby The Machine » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:36 am

Inspired by the RVL & ACL Threads, I'm starting this for any and all discussions about my home line, the Pascack Valley Line.

I'll start with a question: How many Comet I/IB sets are still being used on the PVL? Most seem to be IIMs, IV, or Vs now (With 1 III once spotted in the middle of a train). What happened to the only IB set I could remember, the one with 4002?
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Re: The Pascack Valley Line Thread

Postby blockline4180 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:59 pm

The Machine wrote:Inspired by the RVL & ACL Threads, I'm starting this for any and all discussions about my home line, the Pascack Valley Line.

I'll start with a question: How many Comet I/IB sets are still being used on the PVL? Most seem to be IIMs, IV, or Vs now (With 1 III once spotted in the middle of a train). What happened to the only IB set I could remember, the one with 4002?


Most, if not all sets on the PVL are newer equipment.
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Re: The Pascack Valley Line Thread

Postby Port Jervis » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:04 pm

The Machine wrote:Inspired by the RVL & ACL Threads, I'm starting this for any and all discussions about my home line, the Pascack Valley Line.

I'll start with a question: How many Comet I/IB sets are still being used on the PVL? Most seem to be IIMs, IV, or Vs now (With 1 III once spotted in the middle of a train). What happened to the only IB set I could remember, the one with 4002?


I have never seen anything but newer stuff (including engines) on this line, but my experiences only go back to late October 2007.
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Postby Port Jervis » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:07 pm

Cool idea. What's the feasibility of extending service from Spring Valley to Suffern so that Woodbine can be closed? More directly, what condition is the track between Woodbine and Suffern in?
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Postby sullivan1985 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:29 pm

Port Jervis wrote:Cool idea. What's the feasibility of extending service from Spring Valley to Suffern so that Woodbine can be closed? More directly, what condition is the track between Woodbine and Suffern in?


The track between Woodbine and Suffern is now known as the Suffern Industrial (originally part of the Erie Railroads Peirmont Branch). The track is for the most part in OK condition and is still used to Norfolk Southern now and then to serve a lumber customer from Suffern. East of Airmont Road is where things start to get shakey. Rail and ties are in terrible shape and I remember hearing about a washout somewhere around Monsey or Tallman. I have not seen it myself, but rumor has it part of the RoW in that same area has been developed on.

First off, I don't think you'll ever see this line used for passenger service again unless somehow magically the Metro-North plan to extend the Hudson Line over the Tapan Zee Bridge actually happens (HA!!). Second, Suffern yard does not have the room to hold an additional 9 sets of equipment that Woodbine currently holds now. Woodbine Yard works just fine the way it is.

If the Suffern Industrial was restored for passenger service, not only would the whole line have to be rebuilt from point to point, Suffern Yard would need to be expanded (which there is no room to do) and SF Interlocking would need to be extended and realigned. Thats not to mention all the resistance the residents of Monsey and Tallman would put up. Three large obstacles that the small ridership potential along this short 5 mile stretch of track do not justify doing.
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Postby BlockLine_4111 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:07 pm

Port Jervis wrote:What's the feasibility of extending service from Spring Valley to Suffern so that Woodbine can be closed?

You forgot to add the possibility of allowing PJ riders to transfer to PVL trains for destinations on PVL (e.g. Hackensack Medical Ctr, industrial parks in Teterboro).
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Postby sullivan1985 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:26 pm

BlockLine_4111 wrote:You forgot to add the possibility of allowing PJ riders to transfer to PVL trains for destinations on PVL (e.g. Hackensack Medical Ctr, industrial parks in Teterboro).


Just about every passenger who rides from the Southern Tier gets off at Secaucus for New York or Newark and the rest go to Hoboken for the PATH trains, ferry or light rail. There is a handful of riders at most that transfer at Secaucus for the Pascack Valley. Rebuilding an entire rail line for the possibility that a handful of people might use it doesn't make sense.

Also, being that the Suffern Industrial is entirely in NY State, Metro-North would have the call on if they should expend it or not. At this time there is no outcry to Metro-North for any service extension along this corridor, making no need to rebuild it.

Like I said before, Spring Valley and Suffern are only 5 miles apart from each other. Both stations have connecting bus services that run frequently.
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Postby chessiegp39 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:33 am

There is a large industrial building sitting on the right of way just west of Monsey. They built it a few years ago. Don't forget about the NIMBYS in Rockland Co. who would love to see more trains running through their neck of the woods. You would have to get their approval first.
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Postby Port Jervis » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:04 pm

chessiegp39 wrote:There is a large industrial building sitting on the right of way just west of Monsey. They built it a few years ago. Don't forget about the NIMBYS in Rockland Co. who would love to see more trains running through their neck of the woods. You would have to get their approval first.


The only reason I suggested this was to provide rail service to Monsey and Tallman. If they don't want it, then screw 'em.

I have a cousin who works in Monsey. She's told me that the Jewish residents up there will lay down on the tracks to stop any passanger service from running.
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Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:48 am

Yea, the folks up in that area are the NIMBYIST OF NIMBYs. They're not Conservative Jews, these are hardcore fanatical Orthodox Jews who don't want anybody else anywhere near where they live. I often drive up through area as shortcut to Spring Valley from Montvale and half the businesses' signs are only displayed in Hebrew. Good Luck building a railway on an ROW that sits 20 feet from backyards in that area.
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Postby M&Eman » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:37 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:Yea, the folks up in that area are the NIMBYIST OF NIMBYs. They're not Conservative Jews, these are hardcore fanatical Orthodox Jews who don't want anybody else anywhere near where they live. I often drive up through area as shortcut to Spring Valley from Montvale and half the businesses' signs are only displayed in Hebrew. Good Luck building a railway on an ROW that sits 20 feet from backyards in that area.


The groups that live up there are Hasidic Jews who established many communities in Rockland County in the 1970s. They use Yiddish as their day-to-day language (those signs are in Yiddish, not Hebrew, they would consider it a grave sin to use Hebrew for such a mundane purpose) and want nothing to do with the outside world, including commuter trains.
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Postby PlayMania » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:26 am

Why not have the double track end in between Woodcliff Lake and Montvale? There is plenty of room from Hackensack to just shy of Park Ridge for a second track with minimal site work needing to be done. Maybe the well see half way decent off peak ridership with a half decent off peak schedule.
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Postby PlayMania » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:31 am

BTW, speak about just shy of Park Ridge, what's going on with the (with what to appears to be) new signals being errected? Is this something to be slated for the whole PVL or just trackside on the Park Ridge/Woodcliff Lake border?
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Postby Steve F45 » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:23 pm

PlayMania wrote:Why not have the double track end in between Woodcliff Lake and Montvale? There is plenty of room from Hackensack to just shy of Park Ridge for a second track with minimal site work needing to be done. Maybe the well see half way decent off peak ridership with a half decent off peak schedule.

Only spot between in hackensack that would be a problem is green street station. But before that you can go double track all the way to teterboro. After green street you could go double track probably to emerson.

PlayMania wrote:BTW, speak about just shy of Park Ridge, what's going on with the (with what to appears to be) new signals being errected? Is this something to be slated for the whole PVL or just trackside on the Park Ridge/Woodcliff Lake border?


Maybe just replacing the older signal masts?
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Postby Passaic River Rat » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:05 am

Port Jervis wrote:Cool idea. What's the feasibility of extending service from Spring Valley to Suffern so that Woodbine can be closed? More directly, what condition is the track between Woodbine and Suffern in?


Metro North tried this in the mid 1990's. The locals went ballistic, and Metro North got politically vilified. To save face they claimed that the bridge in Suffern, behind the quarry, would require too much work to make this practical, thus sealing the fait of this line. You will see a lasting peace in the mideast before you see this line put back into service.

There are several threads on this topic in the Metro North Forum.
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