ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby ALP45DP 4515 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:54 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Taking the Montclair-Boonton Line isn’t that fast of an option especially on a local train. The express trains don’t save you much time anyway, like about 10 minutes. Many people who live in Boonton, Mountain Lakes, other towns in WORM territory use the bus to and from the city as it is the most convenient and fastest option, in general. On weekends, it almost takes an hour and a half to travel by train from Denville to NYP. Lakeland takes a lot less.


I'm from and live in Mountain Lakes, I can confirm this. Although I primarily use the train when traveling to NY, as I prefer it, most people from this area that work in NY take the bus. A good amount of people congregate by 46 and the BLVD waiting for the lakeland.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby trainbrain » Wed May 02, 2018 3:05 pm

With regard to the cost, you also have to consider the maintenance costs over the life of the locomotive. The Siemens Charger is completely different mechanically than the ALP-45-DP and you need to have spare parts for both types and have mechanics that can work with both types.

I don't know why NJT hasn't eliminated the Bay Head shuttle already. It would save labor and equipment costs of needing to have the extra sets and crews down there.

Any idea why the Morris/Essex/Montclair lines are so slow? True express service outside of rush hour seems to be limited to the NEC and Port Jervis Line.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Wed May 02, 2018 3:48 pm

From a longtime Montclair resident’s point of view, I can tell you a lot about the slowness of the Montclair-Boonton Line. Capacity into and out of NYP is very limited so that causes many of the Montclair Boonton Line trains to make every single stop, especially between MSU and Newark Broad. Between MSU And Watsessing Ave, the stops are extremely close to one another, no more than a mile. Mountain Ave and Upper Montclair Station is 4/10ths of a mile. There are many curves along the right of way, especially between Bay Street and Glen Ridge. A local train from MSU to NYP takes 50-55 minutes making the travel time very time uncompetitive from anywhere west of MSU on a local.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby trainbrain » Wed May 02, 2018 6:03 pm

That makes it very uncompetitive with taking the bus or driving. It's only about as far north as Clifton on the nearby Main Line which is 5 stops and about half an hour out of Hoboken and 40-45 minutes out of NYP including the transfer.

Apart from having Gateway finished, is there any way it could be sped up? Would consolidating stations, skip-stop service, or having additional express trains go to Hoboken instead of Penn be a possibility?
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Wed May 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Yes, when you are in the immediate area of MSU, if you want trains, then I think you might as well just use the Main Line at Clifton Station. If you want to use the bus, then you have plenty of buses to choose from. One of the 190 series buses serves Little Falls. I think most people who want to use the bus who live in Little Falls drive to Allwood Rd Park N Ride Lot. I live in Upper Montclair about two miles from that parking lot. Sometimes on weekends, I will take the bus from there. For trains, I have used the Bay Street service many times but sometimes I will use Clifton.

I don't think the Mtc-Btn Line will ever be sped up in Montclair, Glen Ridge, and Bloomfield. Too many curves, grade crossings, and the stations are a "light rail" distance from each other. Before any NJT commuter rail projects happen for the most part, Gateway needs to be done. That should have been done years ago. What I also want to see done is replacing the bridge over the Passaic River that the M&E uses and having three tracks all the way from whatever interlocking that is in Harrison to the east end of the Broad St Station platform. That is supposed to happen eventually. What I probably see happening in the short term for Mtc-Btn Line passengers who live in Montclair and points east is when the Multilevel MUs enter revenue service, they will run on the Montclair-Boonton Line as MUs should be. If MUs dominated the Lackawanna Lines, then some travel time would have been shaved off the schedule as many of those lines are meant for MUs.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby lensovet » Sat May 05, 2018 8:46 pm

the capacity into NYP just isn't there and it looks like PTC is throwing another monkey wrench into all this.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun May 06, 2018 11:11 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Yes, when you are in the immediate area of MSU, if you want trains, then I think you might as well just use the Main Line at Clifton Station. If you want to use the bus, then you have plenty of buses to choose from. One of the 190 series buses serves Little Falls. I think most people who want to use the bus who live in Little Falls drive to Allwood Rd Park N Ride Lot. I live in Upper Montclair about two miles from that parking lot. Sometimes on weekends, I will take the bus from there. For trains, I have used the Bay Street service many times but sometimes I will use Clifton.
192 serves Allwood and the 191/195 provide better service to Great Notch than the train ever did - one seat rides, all day service.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby time » Tue May 08, 2018 6:51 pm

train brain wrote:Any idea why the Morris/Essex/Montclair lines are so slow? True express service outside of rush hour seems to be limited to the NEC and Port Jervis Line.


I believe it's due to infrastructure constraints. Especially the evening rush service. Many trains queue just outside of Summit, waiting for trains ahead to clear. Partly due to not having that mysteriously elusive pocket track complete for turnaround service. If your train is just going to wait at Summit anyway, you may as well provide skip-stop service along the way.

To provide consistent express service, or additional express service during prime rush hour, you'd need that pocket track at the very least. Preferably a third track between Millburn and Summit. A third track over the Passaic and through Harrison certainly would help move things along, as well.
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Re: ALP-45-DP Supplemental Order

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Tue May 08, 2018 8:44 pm

Just having the pocket track isn't good enough for adding additional express service. For starters, a third track over the Passaic River Bridge as well as through Harrison is very important-that is supposed to happen eventually along with a new bridge over the Passaic. A third track between Millburn and Summit won't be happening anytime soon but it would be very nice! That M&E literally operates on a subway style headway between Summit and points east during the rush hour.
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