Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak Ban

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, Kaback9, nick11a, ACeInTheHole

Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak Ban

Postby EuroStar » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:27 am

There are reports that NJT is looking almost certain to miss the deadline for PTC installation (December 31, 2018). Here is one of them https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-31/nj-transit-may-miss-locomotive-safety-deadline-documents-show, but other sources are also available on the net. The article obviously has certain inaccuracies in its description of what PTC could have done for the Hoboken crash and does delve in the controversial firing of the safety officer, but let's put those aside. I have seen other reports suggesting that even the first line to get PTC, Morris&Essex is still very far from even testing.

What happens if NJT misses the deadline and is really far behind? I imagine if many other commuter agencies are not able to satisfy the deadline Congress will give another extension. What happens in the case when almost every other commuter railroad is ready with it and NJT is not? Complete shutdown of every line that does not have PTC until it is installed? That probably means that only the NEC will be operational for some time.

On a related note, how far ahead is the MTA? If LIRR and Metro-North are ready by the deadline and NJT is not, it is likely to be much harder to get an extension of any kind.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:54 pm

There's a report on the WCBS news stream that the feds are thinking of fining NJT $50,000 for missing some of their "internal" deadlines
on the PTC install.
Given the "cash-strapped" NJT is behind on projects in general..... stay tuned!

This started from a FRA inspection report dated June 2017,via "The Record",a Bergen county newspaper obtained a copy of this.
NJT blames contractor,also only 13 locos are setup for PTC,crew training is running slow as well.
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 5420
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby time » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:20 pm

There are new silver boxes (assuming PTC equipment) placed at where the M&E and Montclair Boonton lines merge, and at Millburn where it bottlenecks from 3 tracks to 2 tracks, with curves, a grade and wet leaves. :)
time
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:28 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby EuroStar » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:32 am

Testing of PTC between Madison and Denville will begin next year after federal regulators gave the go ahead https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2017/10/17/feds-give-nj-transit-green-light-test-system-prevent-train-crashes/769382001/.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby kilroy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:25 pm

And then they'll work out the bugs and install it on the remaining 316 miles of track in ..... nine months. Riiiiiiight.
Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?
User avatar
kilroy
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 am
Location: Central Jersey

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby time » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:05 pm

I believe they've already made significant progress with installation. As I mentioned earlier, the infrastructure is being put in place now near Newark Broad and Millburn. They're not waiting on test results to move forward with build out.
time
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:28 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC)

Postby EuroStar » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:46 am

Amtrak is threatening to prevent any equipment without PTC from running on their rails after Dec 31, 2018: https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/transportation/2018/02/15/safety-system-deadline-could-threaten-nj-transit-trains-penn-station/340269002/.
Amtrak's CEO said Thursday that it would not allow railroads such as NJ Transit to operate over its tracks after Dec. 31 if they did not have a required safety system in place by then.

It is hard to blame them, but Amtrak probably does not want the liability. I suspect that NJT can cobble enough resources to install the necessary hardware on all electric engines, so service is unlikely to stop. The diesel lines though will definitely not have PTC operational by the deadline.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby Nasadowsk » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:00 pm

I wonder what the MBTA's situation is - supposedly, they are even farther behind on PTC than NJT, and IIRC, they run over Amtrak trackage too.
Nasadowsk
 
Posts: 3872
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:45 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby ThirdRail7 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:42 pm

MBTA trains that operate over Amtrak territory have been ACSES equipped for years. Any train that operates on the NHB must have ACSES. That includes the P&W and CSX.

It's not a problem for them. I doubt it is a problem for NJT as a significant chunk of their equipment is ACSES equipped.
I want my road foreman!
ThirdRail7
 
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby EuroStar » Thu May 03, 2018 11:38 am

As per the press release at http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=PressReleaseTo&PRESS_RELEASE_ID=3207 trains are being eliminated to facilitate the installation of PTC.

This looks very fishy to me. It is a service cut under the pretext of PTC installation. I find it hard to believe that cancelling a few trains really frees much equipment to be shopped for PTC installation. In best case it is probably an indication that they are short engines and cab cars, in worst case it is a cost saving service reduction masquerading with a PTC pretext. In my view there is no way that they are short engines because they could bring into revenue service any and every sidelined diesel plus the mothballed ALP44s (at least the four in the MMC yards). Those sidelined diesels and ALP44s don't need PTC -- they could be run only while the newer stuff is shopped for the PTC given that this is only supposed to last until early 2019 as per the press release (by the end of 2018 there will be another press release continuing the temporary cuts for another year and then the temporary reductions will be made permanent in a stale manner so nobody notices).
EuroStar
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby blockline4180 » Thu May 03, 2018 2:45 pm

EuroStar wrote:As per the press release at http://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=PressReleaseTo&PRESS_RELEASE_ID=3207 trains are being eliminated to facilitate the installation of PTC.

This looks very fishy to me. It is a service cut under the pretext of PTC installation. I find it hard to believe that cancelling a few trains really frees much equipment to be shopped for PTC installation. In best case it is probably an indication that they are short engines and cab cars, in worst case it is a cost saving service reduction masquerading with a PTC pretext. In my view there is no way that they are short engines because they could bring into revenue service any and every sidelined diesel plus the mothballed ALP44s (at least the four in the MMC yards). Those sidelined diesels and ALP44s don't need PTC -- they could be run only while the newer stuff is shopped for the PTC given that this is only supposed to last until early 2019 as per the press release (by the end of 2018 there will be another press release continuing the temporary cuts for another year and then the temporary reductions will be made permanent in a stale manner so nobody notices).



Yup, that's how it always is with them right??
Want to do anything about it? Then contact your state senators and assemblymen and other means of social media and state pretty much what you just said above...Obviously expressing your displeasure here is encouraged, but it won't get you anywhere as primarily buffs and railroaders with very little pull are the only ones who read these forums... Additionally, I don't think all the trains will magically disappear for good like you say.. Train 643 or 645 (I had forgotten which one), that is being abolished had been eliminated years ago, but then came back so there is still hope for some of them!!
~Steve Pellettiere
Co-Moderator: DL&W/Erie/EL Forum
"Each of us makes his own weather, determines the color of the skies in the emotional universe which he inhabits."
User avatar
blockline4180
 
Posts: 5505
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:58 am
Location: NJ and me, Broke Together!

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby lensovet » Sat May 05, 2018 8:59 pm

those "sidelined" trains would need time and money to bring up to revenue service. the equipment crunch is real. they are cancelling what looks like to be about 4-6 locomotives worth of trains. note that to continue running them might actually require 2x the number of locos which are definitely not there. for some of the cancelled trains i am amazed that they have enough ridership to be worth running, e.g. 5822 which has another train 6 minutes earlier and another train 5 minutes later.
Paul Borokhov

Last RRPicArch addition – NJ Railfan.

NJT RailCalifornia commuter (mod)
User avatar
lensovet
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby trainbrain » Sat May 05, 2018 10:49 pm

I don't see a conspiracy here. Many of the trains that they cancelled are redundant and they could just add cars to the trains before and after since the trailer cars are unaffected. What's interesting is they cancelled one of the Metro North Express trips on the PVL on weekdays, yet kept both on weekends. If they were really trying to save money, they would've dropped both of the weekend ones.

What's also odd is the Main/Bergen Line is unaffected. They can't drop any Port Jervis trains because those are limited to begin with, but I thought for sure they'd be making cuts on every line. There are a few redundant trains, but I doubt shortening or dropping them would actually free up additional sets.
trainbrain
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:11 pm

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby lensovet » Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

the PTC ban would affect lines that touch the NEC. that's why RVL, Main/Bergen, and Boonton trains are not affected. my completely uninformed guess is that one of the M&E Hoboken trains used to turn into a Main/Bergen train. since that's canceled, they need an MN train to replace it, and therefore have to kill the MN express on PVL.
Paul Borokhov

Last RRPicArch addition – NJ Railfan.

NJT RailCalifornia commuter (mod)
User avatar
lensovet
 
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Positive Train Control (PTC) Status and Potential Amtrak

Postby Ken W2KB » Sun May 06, 2018 9:02 pm

lensovet wrote:the PTC ban would affect lines that touch the NEC. that's why RVL, Main/Bergen, and Boonton trains are not affected. my completely uninformed guess is that one of the M&E Hoboken trains used to turn into a Main/Bergen train. since that's canceled, they need an MN train to replace it, and therefore have to kill the MN express on PVL.


All RVL trains utilize the NEC for the final mile or so to Newark Penn and most if not all also beyond Penn to the NEC to the Harrison yard, and some off peak to NYP.
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
User avatar
Ken W2KB
 
Posts: 5705
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:27 pm
Location: Lebanon Township, Hunterdon County, New Jersey & Tiverton, RI USA

Next

Return to New Jersey Transit NJT Rail and Light Rail LRT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: superstar and 6 guests