Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, Kaback9, nick11a, ACeInTheHole

Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby cobra30689 » Tue May 09, 2017 6:45 pm

Got an odd one......and my memory fails me.

Back in the day when NJT replaced the G's/E-units with E60's/F40's and Comet II's on the Coast Line, did the NY-Bay Head 3300 trains use cab cars? The 5300 trains out of Harrison Yard definitely did. I know the E60's weren't capable of push-pull, so the trains were looped in Sunnyside and Bay Head. I had ridden a few in the early '80's, as the off-peak runs stopped at Elizabeth....I just don't remember.
cobra30689
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Brick, NJ

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby Zuccaraillo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:57 pm

You really should know that the E60s cannot run to Bay Head. Also the 3300-series trains that I know of are a recent introduction in 2015.
"This station is: Aberdeen-Matawan. When leaving the train, please watch the gap."
Zuccaraillo
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby CNJGeep » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:03 pm

cobra30689 wrote:I know the E60's weren't capable of push-pull

They were, actually. There was a button that had to be held down in the cab during a phase break, though.
NJT and the BLE came to a stalemate over who should be in the rear cab holding down the button, so the engines were rarely, if ever, run in push mode.
"Nobody wins unless everybody wins."
CNJGeep
 
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: A Small Onion

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby CNJGeep » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Zuccaraillo wrote:You really should know that the E60s cannot run to Bay Head. Also the 3300-series trains that I know of are a recent introduction in 2015.

Until 1988, there were direct NY-Bay Head trains which changed engines in South Amboy. After 1983 saw the retirement of the GG1s, the engine swap would be from an F40 to an E60. At no point did OP ever suggest the Motor went to Bay Head.
They did, in fact, use the 3300 number series.
"Nobody wins unless everybody wins."
CNJGeep
 
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: A Small Onion

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby Zuccaraillo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:40 am

Very interesting. Weren't they able to change power at Matawan though?

The electrification extension to LB probably saw the introduction of the current 3200-series trains with the ALP-44 and Comet IIIs. Maybe that year also the introduction of the Long Branch-Bay Head shuttles.
"This station is: Aberdeen-Matawan. When leaving the train, please watch the gap."
Zuccaraillo
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:40 am

NJT had just finished the catenary extension to Matawan when the NJT GG-1's were retired,South Amboy was the end of the PRR built wire,
at that time,excess capy at a PRR substation was used to power the extension at 11,500 kv,25hz.
Most or the former PRR freight routes under wire were turned off and removed by that time.
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 4574
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby CNJGeep » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:12 pm

Zuccaraillo wrote:Very interesting. Weren't they able to change power at Matawan though?

The electrification extension to LB probably saw the introduction of the current 3200-series trains with the ALP-44 and Comet IIIs. Maybe that year also the introduction of the Long Branch-Bay Head shuttles.

There was no voltage change at Matawan until about 2003.
LB service started in 1987-1988, which is why the engine change at South Amboy was discontinued. ALP44s did not hit the scene until 1990, same as the Comet IIIs
"Nobody wins unless everybody wins."
CNJGeep
 
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: A Small Onion

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:15 am

CNJGeep wrote:LB service started in 1987-1988, which is why the engine change at South Amboy was discontinued. ALP44s did not hit the scene until 1990, same as the Comet IIIs

The Comet IIBs were ordered and delivered in 1988 for the Long Branch extension (allowing the last postwar lightweight equipment to be retired). Direct electric service to Long Branch began 7/2/88 and the new station there was built new that year.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
User avatar
R36 Combine Coach
 
Posts: 4862
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby Zuccaraillo » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:46 pm

I've always found the voltage change from 12kV to 25kV on the Hazlet-Long Branch section questionable. If the ALP-46s are fine on both voltages and the Arrows cannot change voltage on the fly why bother.
"This station is: Aberdeen-Matawan. When leaving the train, please watch the gap."
Zuccaraillo
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby EuroStar » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:56 am

Zuccaraillo wrote:I've always found the voltage change from 12kV to 25kV on the Hazlet-Long Branch section questionable. If the ALP-46s are fine on both voltages and the Arrows cannot change voltage on the fly why bother.


I am confused what you mean. It is not only a voltage break, but also a frequency break, 25Hz vs 60Hz. The frequency is the much bigger deal than the voltage. Amtrak's Northeast corridor is 25Hz due to legacy plants. Those plants cannot be expanded cheaply. Commercially available 60Hz power is much more economical than outdated 25Hz technology. Nobody stocks parts for it. It is all one-off orders. So NJT ended up with commercial power at 60Hz. Given that 25kV is standard for catenary, parts are generally available, and smaller diameter wire is required, it made sense to make the newly electrified sections to Long Branch 25kV. 60Hz also gives you smaller and lighter transformers within the equipment. The very long term plan of both Amtrak and NJT is for everything to eventually be 60Hz, but don't count on seeing that during your lifetime. The 12kV is not going anywhere due to the clearances at Penn, but the 25Hz will eventually be gone.

The Arrows cannot change voltage on the fly because they predate the Long Branch electrification and rewiring all internal components to do so is prohibitively expensive for equipment of that age. The original Arrow transformers can handle both voltages because 25Hz transformer core is larger and can handle 60Hz easily, but they lack the electronics to make the switch on the fly (there is the pesky issue of switching from parallel to series windings when going between 12kV and 25kV). The new multilevels EMU which NJT plans to eventually procure will have the capability to switch between the voltages and frequencies on the fly. Then the limit of some electrical equipment not being able to reach Long Branch will go away.
EuroStar
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere

Re: Strange question....old 3300-series Coast Line trains

Postby cobra30689 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm

Zuccaraillo wrote:Very interesting. Weren't they able to change power at Matawan though?

The electrification extension to LB probably saw the introduction of the current 3200-series trains with the ALP-44 and Comet IIIs. Maybe that year also the introduction of the Long Branch-Bay Head shuttles.

Also the 3300-series trains that I know of are a recent introduction in 2015.



There was no place to put motors or diesels at Matawan. The Natco Industrial lead that is wired as far as the Parkway was for MU storage for trains that turned at Matawan.

CNJGeep is correct.....the ORIGINAL LB extension was done at 12kv at 60hz with power bought from JCP&L. E60's and Arrows were indeed capable of going as far as LB (and did go), but I believe a rate deal was cut between NJT and JCP&L in the 2003 timeframe, and the voltage was raised to 25kv, which is why the Arrows can only go as far as Matawan to this day.

FYI, the 3300-series train symbols in fact go all the way back to the CNJ days for Bay Head to Jersey City trains. The PRR Bay Head-NYP trains were a three digit series, 700-something I believe.

CNJGeep wrote:They were, actually. There was a button that had to be held down in the cab during a phase break, though.
NJT and the BLE came to a stalemate over who should be in the rear cab holding down the button, so the engines were rarely, if ever, run in push mode.


Thanks man. I remember there being a tap changer switch, but I didn't know whether they could auto-negotiate a phase break or voltage change like the ALP's can.
cobra30689
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Brick, NJ


Return to New Jersey Transit NJT Rail and Light Rail LRT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests