#3926 Derailment at NYP

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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby ryanov » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:12 pm

Where does "A" go?

My partner came home on a train that left from track 2, so I'm gusssing it is involved in the lower tracks?

Has any information come out about what actually caused either derailment?
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Believed to be a broken wheel on 1 of the MLV's, a link to the NY Daily News report can be found in the LIRR Forum.
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby checkthedoorlight » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:46 pm

http://m.railwayage.com/index.php/safet ... weeks.html

I'm pretty sure that track map isn't an original creation of Railway Age.....
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Ken W2KB » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:35 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Believed to be a broken wheel on 1 of the MLV's, a link to the NY Daily News report can be found in the LIRR Forum.


"What some riders thought was a broken wheel in a Twitter photo was a piece of brake rotor, a NJ Transit officials said. A cause has not been determined for the derailment."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8fib-kWsAAq8X9.jpg
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:43 am

On Gray Lady's front page today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/nyreg ... lment.html

Fair Use:

...It was a relatively minor mishap — several cars on a slow-moving New Jersey Transit train jumped the tracks on Monday morning at Pennsylvania Station in New York.

But by the next day, it had cascaded into a transportation crisis, snarling travel up and down the East Coast, upending the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, and vividly illustrating the fragile state of infrastructure in the nation’s busiest transit corridor


Beyond that; "we report, you decide"
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby pumpers » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:10 am

Can someone technically explain exactly what damage was caused and why it is taking so long to repair, over 48 hours, and the NJT site is saying at least another 36 or so (until the end of Thursday's service.) It's easy to say "it's just a few switches", but clearly it is more complicated.
JS
EDIT: Has there been any other major disruption like this (which will be nearly 4 days) to NYPS that anyone can remember (besides Sandy)?
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby JamesRR » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24 am

If you read that Railway Age link, it makes the valid point that those switches are custom fabricated to the interlocking there. So if track was damaged (including third rail) it takes time to replace, then test.

All in a very busy terminal with trains passing the damaged area. They can only work during low-peak times.

I was on the train, and after the first jerking was felt, the train stopped, then continued forward, where more jerking was felt. Which means the train continued to drag the derailed cars a little further along before trouble was suspected. Three cars derailed which is pretty significant (not sure why they keep saying "minor derailment")
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby dieciduej » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:36 pm

JamesRR wrote:I was on the train, and after the first jerking was felt, the train stopped, then continued forward, where more jerking was felt. Which means the train continued to drag the derailed cars a little further along before trouble was suspected. Three cars derailed which is pretty significant (not sure why they keep saying "minor derailment")


Since the cars didn't end up on their sides or roof and no personal injury was incurred then is would be minor, by my guess. Since it was a jerk, stop, jerk, stop sequence it wasn't enough to break the air line and go into emergency. So with the special track work it would take some time to fix, I haven't been down there in ages, so I am not sure if they store some of the special rail between the rails. If not, call Rail Depot! :wink:
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby SwingMan » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:44 pm

The area coming into track 9 is a fairly intricate section of double-slip switches, the top of two ladders to the 8 southern tracks, and short, tight slice into 9 track. It's too bad that it is taking so long to recover, but to say it is a difficult and unique issue would be an understatement. The comments about this being an infrastructure problem is funny though, as always. Everyone cares about maintenance until they see the extra $20 on their tickets.
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby ryanov » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:09 am

Santoro was on TV today mentioning that there's very little room and that they have to run service at the same time (though they're barely running train service at night, if they can afford to work around the clock).

He also threw Amtrak under the bus. I don't think that's a classy move. Amtrak is as chronically underfunded as his agency. Everyone's trying to make it work with what they've got.
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:39 am

The "given" is all the parts to repair the damage are "custom fit",that takes time to create from scratch,then
""cut and fiddle" inplace to fit.
The other "given" is there's not Enough $$$$ around for Amtrak to create the needed "stockpile" of spare parts on hand.
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:07 am

Like any good politician, "Chris gets the credit; others get the blame"; so now it's time to threaten Amtrak - a move that will surely have the lawyers' taximeters a ticking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/nyre ... mtrak.html

Fair Use:

.Gov. Chris Christie directed New Jersey Transit late Wednesday to halt all payments to Amtrak because of a train derailment on Monday and subsequent delays that have ensnarled Garden State commuters this week, according to two letters obtained by The New York Times.

In a letter to Anthony R. Coscia, the chairman of the Amtrak board, the governor said that he had directed New Jersey Transit “to cease making any payments to Amtrak” until there had been a “thorough and independent examination of the tracks, signals, switches and other equipment maintained by Amtrak” on the Northeast Corridor and verification that the equipment was “in a state-of-good-repair.”

As part of a longstanding agreement, New Jersey Transit pays Amtrak for its use of both the Hudson River tunnels and the Northeast Corridor rail lines, which Amtrak owns. According to the letter, New Jersey Transit pays Amtrak $2.5 million to $5 million a month for operating expenses and recently paid an additional $62 million for capital investments in the Northeast Corridor as part of the agreement. Mr. Christie is directing that these funds be withheld in future payments.
..


If there is any foundation to the reports here that the incident can be laid upon NJT equipment, then Chris has quite the uphill battle, and will likely be looking at a "counter" from Amtrak should any contractual payments be withheld.

Oh well, at least there are term limits in Jersey; all too often, that's the only way to "get rid of 'em".
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby EuroStar » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:35 am

I don't pretend to understand the complex system that NYP is, so I am curious to hear thoughts and facts on the following. I read somewhere that 8 tracks are not usable -- given that the derailment was on track 9 that seems reasonable even though it makes me wonder which one of the tracks below 9 is usable. Then there is the question that even though tracks 1-4 are accessible only from the west, all other tracks are accessible from the east. That would make at least 4 tracks accessible from east only. Amtrak has no use for such tracks--few if any trains start in NYC and go north. LIRR could use them at least in theory -- lack of access to the West Side Yard is an issue, but maybe they could be used with sets that turn around and go right back out. Has that occurred? Has LIRR used lower numbered tracks that they do not usually use to turn trains right at the platform? Also while LIRR currently has no yard in Sunnyside it will have one eventually with ESA. Would that have made any of those accessible only from east tracks usable for LIRR?
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby Amtrak7 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:44 am

LIRR has used 11-12 for trains that turn in the station at rush hour, and 17-21 at other times. NJT/Amtrak are using 1-8 and 13-16 primarily. Unclear if 9/11/12 have access to/from the North River tunnels - I saw one train for each posted on DepartureVision on Tuesday, but nothing yesterday. Unclear if Track 10 is in service at all.
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Re: #3926 Derailment at NYP

Postby JamesRR » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:34 pm

SwingMan wrote:The area coming into track 9 is a fairly intricate section of double-slip switches, the top of two ladders to the 8 southern tracks, and short, tight slice into 9 track. It's too bad that it is taking so long to recover, but to say it is a difficult and unique issue would be an understatement. The comments about this being an infrastructure problem is funny though, as always. Everyone cares about maintenance until they see the extra $20 on their tickets.


NJ Transit pays anywhere from 3 to 5 million dollars a month for usage rights on the NEC and PSNY, and also paid over $60 million last year to Amtrak for NEC upgrades. And our fares did in fact go up. So it's not a question of 'caring about safety until a ticket price goes up', it's a question of 'where is the money going?'
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