ALP46 At Both Ends

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ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby JamesRR » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:09 pm

The other day, the 7:29 local out of Hamilton (usually a single level Comet push-pull consist) had ALP-46 locos at both ends instead of a cab at one end.

First time I've ever seen this on NJT revenue service. Is the trailing loco put in "idle" and essentially towed by the lead loco? Do they run it for power?

I assume it was an equipment move, though odd they wouldn't do a double-header.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby MACTRAXX » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:22 am

James:

How long was the train you saw? Was it at least 10 multilevels?

Back when the ALP46s and multilevels were newer I recall that 12 car trains using doubleheader
ALP46 locomotives on either end were used for a time and I remember posting about how much
power the two locomotives drew when they were leaving a station (the time when trains draw the
most power to accelerate) and remember that a specific megawatt figure was mentioned. As I do
recall the front and rear locomotives operated in tandem to complement one another instead of
only having one do all the work to pull what is a very heavy weight trainset.

I believe the revised limit was 10 multilevels for one ALP46 in push-pull service. That is still a
very heavy train and shows how good or reliable the ALP46s turned out to be. I recall that they
were also used in Amtrak NYP-PHL "Clocker" service hauling 10-12 Amfleet cars when they were
still in operation as part of NJT's contribution to the service before these runs were discontinued.

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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby kilroy » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:03 pm

A picture of an ALP at each end from back in 2007.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=920856
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby JamesRR » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:47 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:How long was the train you saw? Was it at least 10 multilevels?



This was a train of single-level Comet IIa and Comet IVs, approximately 8 cars.
I unfortunately don't recall if the pano on the rear ALP-46 was up or not - but I swear it was running when it went past me.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:35 pm

The most logical explanation is that if this was a single level consist, a Comet V was unavailable so a ALP46 was used a leading cab.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Idiot Railfan » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:33 pm

Do does that mean there were five cabs on that train (if you count a cab car)?
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby JamesRR » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:49 am

Saw this again this morning. A 10-car set of Comet IIa's and IIIs with an ALP-46 at both ends. And both had their pantos up.
No cab car within the consist.

Do they use ALPs to stand in for lack of cab car? Or could it be an equipment move. I would have expected a cab within the consist if it was the latter.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Matt Johnson » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am

JamesRR wrote:Saw this again this morning. A 10-car set of Comet IIa's and IIIs with an ALP-46 at both ends. And both had their pantos up.
No cab car within the consist.

Do they use ALPs to stand in for lack of cab car? Or could it be an equipment move. I would have expected a cab within the consist if it was the latter.


I've seen that set repeatedly over the last month or so, always with the pans up on both ends of the train.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby CNJGeep » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:06 pm

JamesRR wrote:Do they use ALPs to stand in for lack of cab car?

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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby NortheastTrainMan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:08 pm

Interesting, I saw a 8 car mixed II/IV/V consist with 2 ALP-46s, one on each end operating in revenue service.

I thought it was weird too.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Nasadowsk » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:41 pm

NortheastTrainMan wrote:Interesting, I saw a 8 car mixed II/IV/V consist with 2 ALP-46s, one on each end operating in revenue service.

I thought it was weird too.


When the ALP-46As first showed up, there was a video of a set with two 46's at one end, single level cars. It made an Arrow III set look slow pulling out of the station...
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Zuccaraillo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:16 pm

I may have been told that Comet V's have been in the process of being fitted with PTC, hence why 46's are being run in a configuration like this. If the Comet IVs were still allowed to lead trains this might not even happened. If NJT's Comet IVs cannot lead trains how come other agencies' similar cab cars (Metro-North with Shoreliners) are just fine?
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:56 pm

Believe NJT's Comet IV's have obsolete air brake equipment in the cab cars that doesn't play well with the locos,can only be used as "trailer" coaches
MN has provided any upgrade parts needed to keep their cab cars current,since MN's cars are freely pooled with NJT's cars and wander on both
divisions(Newark or Hoboken sides) at times.

On the East of Hudson side,Shoreliner is a varient name use on what is basicly a comet design and shared by MN and ConnDOT,but Cab Cars have
a integrated ASC/Cab signal setup used by MN on all lines out of GCT that is maintained well. New Haven Line will be first to have ACSES installed
and go online shortly(a few years from now)

Both MN and NJT are converting to ACSES as "their" PTC setup.
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Zuccaraillo » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 am

Backshophoss wrote:Believe NJT's Comet IV's have obsolete air brake equipment in the cab cars that doesn't play well with the locos,can only be used as "trailer" coaches


There is a side on how I disagree with that. Comet IV cabs have a throttle with notches that is much more compatible with the old Geeps rather than the 10-position controllers found on all the modern equipment such as the Comet V, ALP-45/46, PL42, and MLV. The GP40s seem to have a throttle and brake setup that works poorly with the Comet V cab anyway.

Back on topic: once the Multilevel EMUs are placed into service and retire all the Arrows and some of the existing Comets, the cab car shortage wouldn't be much of an issue as the MLV EMUs will be compatible with existing Multilevel equipment and therefore repool some of the non-MU Multilevel sets to fill the gaps the to-be-retired Arrows and Comets left behind.

Right now, relocating the Multilevel cabs positioned behind the locomotives should add some extra cab cars for use. If they have fully functional operating cabs why not put them to use at the ends of trains?
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Re: ALP46 At Both Ends

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:02 pm

Believe NJT has NO intention of upgrading the Comet IV Cab Cars with ACSES,only the Comet V's,MLV-1's and MLV-II's will get the ACSES upgrade.
Along with the NJT loco fleet.

All active cab cars are subject to the same inspection cycle as locos,at 90 day intervals.
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