Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby pumpers » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:58 am

andrewjw wrote:It says their are staircases to platforms 3, 4, 5, 6, serving tracks 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12: platform i serves tracks 2i-1 and 2i.

I stand corrected, thank you.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby SecaucusJunction » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:01 am

Is there any way to extend the platforms or create a connection to the new corridor? Seems silly they can't connect the 4 tracks.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby EuroStar » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:44 am

SecaucusJunction wrote:Is there any way to extend the platforms or create a connection to the new corridor? Seems silly they can't connect the 4 tracks.


See my post in the Amtrak thread:http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65090&start=600#p1436015
Unfortunately for these connectors to be built, NJT will need to pony up the cash and NJT is worse than broke, so I do not expect to see said connectors being built in the next 40 years. If Penn South ever gets built, then you will likely see those connector built, but Penn South will not happen in my or your lifetime.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby time » Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:13 pm

jamesinclair wrote:
EuroStar wrote:NJTransit boardings at Penn Station per year:
2014 -- 87,130
2015 -- 92,312
2016 -- 94,859


Usually this calls for added service. Instead, NJ Transit cut some late night options last year.

What was the last time NJ Transit ADDED to the schedule?


The last time I recall NJT adding service was when they (finally) agreed to bring service to Montclair on weekend. And even then, it was only to Bay Street, and only a shuttle service. With weekend Montclair service direct to NYP, I'd expect boarding to increase to over 100k.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby JamesRR » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:12 am

EuroStar wrote:
SecaucusJunction wrote:Is there any way to extend the platforms or create a connection to the new corridor? Seems silly they can't connect the 4 tracks.


See my post in the Amtrak thread:http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65090&start=600#p1436015
Unfortunately for these connectors to be built, NJT will need to pony up the cash and NJT is worse than broke, so I do not expect to see said connectors being built in the next 40 years. If Penn South ever gets built, then you will likely see those connector built, but Penn South will not happen in my or your lifetime.


Yes, it seems the current corridor wasn't extended far enough south to even add the stairs for tracks 1-4. They'd require a unique setup to be able to cross under the 8th Ave subway, since tracks 1-4 don't extend westward as much as the other tracks in NYP.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby SecaucusJunction » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:12 am

What would it take to extend the 1-4 platforms?
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby bleet » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:52 pm

In case y'all haven't seen this.

http://www.rethinknyc.org/the-plan/
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby EuroStar » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:34 am

SecaucusJunction wrote:What would it take to extend the 1-4 platforms?

A. Something on the order of $20-30 million (estimate from the fact that the new enlarged concourse that just opened had a cost exceeding $100 million)
B. NJT involvement in the transformation of the post office to a train station (so far it is LIRR/Amtrak project when it comes to railroad involvement)

You will not get A while Christie is around (you are not likely to get it afterwards either, but with Christe it is a certainty). You will not get B unless the newly opened concourse sees more use by NJT passengers. I do not know if it is lack of publicity, but even at 5-5:30pm (peak afternoon rush hour?) you can count on your fingers the people using it to board an NJT or Amtrak train. The fact that there are no NJT track announcement boards does not help. If one is standing in that concourse the only way to find out which track their NJT or Amtrak train is on is to use a smart phone. Once a track is announced, the board for that specific track shows that it is an NJT train, but it does not solve the problem of which track to go to in advance. And then there is the annoyance of what to do if once one sees the track on the phone screen it is one of tracks 1-4. A long walk around becomes necessary -- most people will not walk down along say platform 3(tracks 5 and 6) and then up to the old concourse and then down again to one of tracks 1-4. Most people will walk around. So it is not surprising that most NJT customers do not attempt to use the new West End Concourse to board their trains. So it is a classical chicken and egg problem: NJT customers will not use the new concourse because they cannot reach tracks 1-4 from it and the concourse will not be expanded to reach tracks 1-4 because not enough NJT customers use what is already there. I have stated my view before: the extension will only happen a part of a larger project and the only viable candidate is Penn South construction.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby JamesRR » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:37 am

SecaucusJunction wrote:What would it take to extend the 1-4 platforms?


The platforms for tracks 1-4 end further east than all the other platforms - they don't extend under the 8th Ave subway (which runs over Penn's tracks below 8 Ave). So stairways cannot simply be dropped from the current West End Concourse to those tracks.

The concourse would have to be extended south, then there would need to be individual spines created from the WEC under the 8 Ave subway to each platform. There are drawings of this (posted in a link in this thread) that show it's possible, but as mentioned, only NJT uses those tracks so the investment wasn't made.

The WEC is only really useful for NJT riders exiting and heading west or to the 8 Ave subway. Those departing from it would need to know ahead of time their train is on track 5 or higher.

If Penn South is built, then everything could change, as it would involve significant construction to connect with the existing Penn Station.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby mohawkrailfan » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:04 am

JamesRR wrote:The WEC is only really useful for NJT riders exiting and heading west or to the 8 Ave subway. Those departing from it would need to know ahead of time their train is on track 5 or higher.


For many commuters that is not difficult.

Also it's useful for anyone exiting anywhere, because it relieves the horrible crushing at the other staircases.
Make a little noise at the flag location.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby JamesRR » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:46 am

mohawkrailfan wrote:
JamesRR wrote:The WEC is only really useful for NJT riders exiting and heading west or to the 8 Ave subway. Those departing from it would need to know ahead of time their train is on track 5 or higher.


For many commuters that is not difficult.

Also it's useful for anyone exiting anywhere, because it relieves the horrible crushing at the other staircases.



Yes, this was mentioned earlier in the thread. Using Departure Vision - even for those arriving on the subway, as all stations have underground cell service now.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby jamesinclair » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:15 pm

I can confirm the new concourse has zero NJTransit ticket machines and zero monitors showing NJ Transit departures.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby JamesRR » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:34 pm

jamesinclair wrote:I can confirm the new concourse has zero NJTransit ticket machines and zero monitors showing NJ Transit departures.


The stairway departure boards do show NJT train info, but ONLY if a train has been posted to that track. As you said, there are no general status boards there. It's a LIRR concourse for all intents and purposes.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby EuroStar » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:36 am

JamesRR wrote:The stairway departure boards do show NJT train info, but ONLY if a train has been posted to that track. As you said, there are no general status boards there. It's a LIRR concourse for all intents and purposes.


Given that NJT did not contribute a single dollar to the concourse, why would it be any different? NY State is not going to pay for NJT facilities. Note that there are no general Amtrak departure boards either. I do not expect that Cuomo's plan for the post office building will be any different -- it will be for LIRR only. The fact that Amtrak or NJT passengers can use these facilities is incidental, not intentional.

On the topic of NJT concourses though, tucked inside the Gateway Tunnel DEIS is a mention of NJT working on planning and designing a 'central concourse' inside the existing NYPenn. So one day, in many many years, the NJ commuters might actually see some relief. I am guessing that the location is going to be where the LIRR central corridor currently is -- the existing corridor will likely be extended to reach the lower numbered tracks.
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Re: Closed stairs at Penn Station NYC

Postby JamesRR » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:27 pm

EuroStar wrote:
JamesRR wrote:The stairway departure boards do show NJT train info, but ONLY if a train has been posted to that track. As you said, there are no general status boards there. It's a LIRR concourse for all intents and purposes.


Given that NJT did not contribute a single dollar to the concourse, why would it be any different? NY State is not going to pay for NJT facilities. Note that there are no general Amtrak departure boards either. I do not expect that Cuomo's plan for the post office building will be any different -- it will be for LIRR only. The fact that Amtrak or NJT passengers can use these facilities is incidental, not intentional.



The Post Office building will not be for LIRR only. It's actually intended to be a nicer facility for Amtrak passengers, with some spillover from LIRR. But even Cuomo has acknowledged most LIRR riders will remain at the original facility, hence why there are plans to modernize the LIRR concourses there.
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