The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby EuroStar » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:34 am

The area around Garfield station is being proposed for redevelopment. Here is a linkhttp://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/garfield/2017/10/26/garfield-residents-rally-tonight-over-eminent-domain-proposal/803106001/.

If that happens then Garfield station will not get 'Great-notched'. If in fact this happens, the station might become full service. I do not see the point in not having it being full service now anyway -- the few locals that skip it do not really provide fast service anyway, so another minute stopping there is not a big loss, and it could actually improve the ridership.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby CentralValleyRail » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:59 am

EuroStar wrote:The area around Garfield station is being proposed for redevelopment. Here is a linkhttp://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/garfield/2017/10/26/garfield-residents-rally-tonight-over-eminent-domain-proposal/803106001/.

If that happens then Garfield station will not get 'Great-notched'. If in fact this happens, the station might become full service. I do not see the point in not having it being full service now anyway -- the few locals that skip it do not really provide fast service anyway, so another minute stopping there is not a big loss, and it could actually improve the ridership.


The sad part about great notch is when they have some of the Hoboken (MU's) use the Great Notch Stub in theory they could add Great Notch on as a stop at NO additional cost.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby EuroStar » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:21 am

There are two hoppers parked on the siding west of Garfield station on a siding that is almost never used for anything other than MOW equipment.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby SecaucusJunction » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:12 am

Hopefully a new station platform is included in the revitalization of Garfield. It sucks for the people who may have to move their businesses, but the town could really use something to make it more attractive to people.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby EuroStar » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:52 am

There were 4 hoppers parked on the siding at Garfield Station yesterday.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby NIMBYkiller » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:57 pm

My apologies if this has been brought up here in the past, but has there ever been a study to see if running time would be reduced if the service went over the old line through downtown Middletown and Chester (Erie route I think?)?
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby trainbrain » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:29 pm

Zero chance of that being restored. It would probably save at least some time, and bring in more ridership, but just wait for nimby outrage from people who haven't had trains running through their backyard for 30 years.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:41 pm

There's literally no reason for any service on the Old Main at this point. Would downtown stations in Monroe, Goshen, Chester and Middletown be nice? Sure. The Graham Line is much faster and better built.

Now if you want real speculation, you wonder what would've happened if the Graham Line proposal south of Newburgh Junction happened.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby andrewjw » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:01 am

Roadgeek Adam wrote:There's literally no reason for any service on the Old Main at this point. Would downtown stations in Monroe, Goshen, Chester and Middletown be nice? Sure. The Graham Line is much faster and better built.

Now if you want real speculation, you wonder what would've happened if the Graham Line proposal south of Newburgh Junction happened.

What proposal is this?
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby SemperFidelis » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:43 am

Roadgeek Adam wrote:
What proposal is this?


Perhaps this?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... IlxGA1X6w-

As I can't always get it to load properly:

The proposal speaks of building one or two short connections allowing his NYC, O&W, and the Erie to abandon a few dozen miles of track, many large and expensive trestles, and pool resources in and around Newburgh, NY...all without losing access to any customers. Sort of a microscopic Shared Assets, I guess.

I will rewrite this tomorrow when my eyes aren't crossed.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby NIMBYkiller » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:03 am

Seems like, according to the old Erie schedules, that the main was actually faster. Suffern to Port Jervis in 1hr 22min making 11 stops vs today 1hr 26min making 8 stops. Assuming Southfields and Arden would never re-open, you could shave another 2 minutes or so off that Erie schedule. So tell me again about how the Graham is much faster? Considering my generation largely wanting to be in the downtown and largely turning towards a car free lifestyle (some by choice, some by financial force), it sounds like moving passenger service to the Graham was an all around loser
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby EuroStar » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:05 am

Given that the rails are gone, you are looking at probably $200 million to simply put them back on the right of way (grading, gravel, drainage, PTC included). Then you are looking at about $20 million per ADA compliant station. Add to that everything you will need to pay for to get the NIMBYs quiet: noise walls and fencing, an underpass or an overpass for a road or two per town, some other junk that a local politico wants. Overall say another $150 million. So you are looking at about $350 million for what will not be more than 10,000 extra passengers (and that is generous). I do not see that happening. $350 million compares favorably to $2 billion for the LIRR third track, but is still very expensive for what is a rural area with uncongested roads. The line though the old downtowns is gone and is never coming back. If the MTA wanted to put that amount of money into Orange county, they should just double track to Middletown, pay NJ to put in a middle express track between Suffern and Waldwick and run every train between Suffern and Secaucus express through NJ.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby Roadgeek Adam » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:12 am

EuroStar wrote:Given that the rails are gone, you are looking at probably $200 million to simply put them back on the right of way (grading, gravel, drainage, PTC included). Then you are looking at about $20 million per ADA compliant station. Add to that everything you will need to pay for to get the NIMBYs quiet: noise walls and fencing, an underpass or an overpass for a road or two per town, some other junk that a local politico wants. Overall say another $150 million. So you are looking at about $350 million for what will not be more than 10,000 extra passengers (and that is generous). I do not see that happening. $350 million compares favorably to $2 billion for the LIRR third track, but is still very expensive for what is a rural area with uncongested roads. The line though the old downtowns is gone and is never coming back. If the MTA wanted to put that amount of money into Orange county, they should just double track to Middletown, pay NJ to put in a middle express track between Suffern and Waldwick and run every train between Suffern and Secaucus express through NJ.


Even the express would probably stop at Ridgewood.

Anyway, as this map from 1923 shows, there was a proposed grade reduction line from Passaic Junction to Newburgh Junction proposed that would've bypassed the line we know today.
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby Graeme Salt » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:33 am

Apologies if this has been discussed previously, but I note that for the insomniac/insane rail enthusiast, there is the possibility to do an overnight round trip from Hoboken to Port Jervis, departing just before 1 am and arriving back at the terminal just after 6. I'm curious to know if anyone has done this, and if so how was the experience? Or has anyone travelled on either leg of this early am service?
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Re: The Main/Bergen/Port Jervis Line Thread

Postby CentralValleyRail » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Graeme Salt wrote:Apologies if this has been discussed previously, but I note that for the insomniac/insane rail enthusiast, there is the possibility to do an overnight round trip from Hoboken to Port Jervis, departing just before 1 am and arriving back at the terminal just after 6. I'm curious to know if anyone has done this, and if so how was the experience? Or has anyone travelled on either leg of this early am service?


The last PJ outbound of the day 12:45 or whatever usually runs with 3 cars and gets a fairly good crowd. I've been on it a few times. Once your in PJ your left out in the cold for a solid 30-35 minutes. Nothing that I know of is open at that hour. Any real reason to do this? As an extreme railfan your not going to see anything as it will be dark as heck, maybe in the summer on the way back but really not worth it.
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