"Pocket Track" at Summit

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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby time » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:19 pm

nick11a wrote:If the pocket track and new interlocking is indeed down there, it'll become its own new interlocking.


NJ Transit's website specifically says "relocate the West Summit interlocking." For what that is worth. :)

I don't understand the significance of this new pocket track. Why can't they use the tracks to the east of the station to store and turn trains? I get that a 45 mph crossover will help with moving trains through the area, especially the Gladstone trains arriving on the westbound platform (track 2?) and then needing to cross over the eastbound M&E tracks. But I don't understand the operational efficiency at turning a train west of the station vs. turning a train in the yard.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:17 pm

time wrote:
nick11a wrote:If the pocket track and new interlocking is indeed down there, it'll become its own new interlocking.


NJ Transit's website specifically says "relocate the West Summit interlocking." For what that is worth. :)

I don't understand the significance of this new pocket track. Why can't they use the tracks to the east of the station to store and turn trains? I get that a 45 mph crossover will help with moving trains through the area, especially the Gladstone trains arriving on the westbound platform (track 2?) and then needing to cross over the eastbound M&E tracks. But I don't understand the operational efficiency at turning a train west of the station vs. turning a train in the yard.


It is still likely they'll be turning trains when needed in the yard in addition to the new pocket track. At present (pre-pocket), it is possible during the rush to have 2 or 3 trains (or sometimes even more) in Summit laying over. These can include Summit locals and/or expresses to/from Hoboken or New York as well as other equipment there. Sometimes, as scheduling works out, trains need to switch ends on a main track due to all of the tracks in Summit Yard being occupied and having nowhere else to safely/efficiently do so. Having a pocket track allows for increased scheduling options and breathing room when things go awry.

One other point to consider is that all the tracks in Summit Yard are yard tracks with restrictive signals into and out of it (on the west end only) due to the slow speed switches and lack of yard track length. This keeps movements to/from the yard slow. Could NJT upgrade this? Perhaps, but not by a lot. It's hard for me to see trains getting a Medium Approach into that tiny little yard. One of the purposes of the pocket track is to get trains off the main lines and onto them in a timely fashion so as to keep the mains clear. I should think as NJT works to get this project done that they'll make sure the infastructure allows for the safe, speedy, and efficient movement of trains.

Of course, we'll have to wait and see as the project details as released to the public lack detail.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby time » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:39 pm

Thinking about this more, the primary issue may be the platform dwell time to reverse the train into the yard, no? So, if a Summit WB local needs to turn around, they currently do that on the wall track. But that may not be the best area to turn the train. Especially if it would be advantageous for passengers to be let out on the WB platform for their transfer, or just for the sake of consistency! The train could stop on the WB platform, then continue past the station, through the quick interlocking, into the pocket track, "park it", have the engineer change ends and finally continue back to the station for a scheduled stop. Kind of the way the Newark Light Rail works at Broad Street Station, just on a much larger scale.

And of course it would be another spot to stash a limping train, which is always nice.

Ok. Sold.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby bleet » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:14 pm

The pocket track will be used to turn MTD's that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover. With a pocket track they'll be able to pull those trains off track 1 without crossing track 2 so neither east nor westbound traffic will be affected. Pulling trains like those into the yard which is east of the station is a much more complicated and messy operation which is why they don't do it.

Also, the work on replacing the Morris Avenue bridge is getting closer. There's a public meeting in Summit next week to brief people on what's going to happen.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:21 pm

bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTD's that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover. With a pocket track they'll be able to pull those trains off track 1 without crossing track 2 so neither east nor westbound traffic will be affected. Pulling trains like those into the yard which is east of the station is a much more complicated and messy operation which is why they don't do it.

Also, the work on replacing the Morris Avenue bridge is getting closer. There's a public meeting in Summit next week to brief people on what's going to happen.


Your post makes it sound like the pocket track will be on the north side of the tracks off of Track 1. I don't see how that would work considering the limited space there. I always thought the track pocket track would be on the other side right around the maintenance facility where the Morristown Line and Gladstone Branch meets. No?
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:31 pm

bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTDs that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover.
Do the 300 series Summit locals out of HOB do the same?
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:43 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTDs that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover.
Do the 300 series Summit locals out of HOB do the same?


There are variatins by the way in where trains layover in Summit. Typically, Hoboken trains will lay over and change ends on the Wall Track, but I have seen them do so west of the station on Track 1 as well. Trains also can change ends in the yard, as mentioned before.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby bleet » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:50 am

nick11a wrote:
bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTD's that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover. With a pocket track they'll be able to pull those trains off track 1 without crossing track 2 so neither east nor westbound traffic will be affected. Pulling trains like those into the yard which is east of the station is a much more complicated and messy operation which is why they don't do it.

Also, the work on replacing the Morris Avenue bridge is getting closer. There's a public meeting in Summit next week to brief people on what's going to happen.


Your post makes it sound like the pocket track will be on the north side of the tracks off of Track 1. I don't see how that would work considering the limited space there. I always thought the track pocket track would be on the other side right around the maintenance facility where the Morristown Line and Gladstone Branch meets. No?


No. I think they will spread tracks one and two apart and put the pocket track in the middle. That way no trains have to cross in front of on-coming traffic. I think it will be in the area you mention where there should be enough space to do that.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby bleet » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:54 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTDs that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover.
Do the 300 series Summit locals out of HOB do the same?


The only trains I've ever seen turned on track 1 are Midtown Directs. Most Hoboken trains turn on the Wall track although they are sometimes pulled into the yard if there is a long layover.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:51 pm

bleet wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
bleet wrote:The pocket track will be used to turn MTDs that terminate in Summit before reversing to go back to NYP. Today those trains sit on track 1 west of the station until they are scheduled to head back eastbound effectively blocking trains heading to Dover.
Do the 300 series Summit locals out of HOB do the same?


The only trains I've ever seen turned on track 1 are Midtown Directs. Most Hoboken trains turn on the Wall track although they are sometimes pulled into the yard if there is a long layover.


Some schedules/some days have involved Hoboken trains turning on Track 1 before reversing to the Wall Track.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:05 pm

Are the 300 series locals still Arrows or since converted to push-pull?
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby bleet » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:18 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Are the 300 series locals still Arrows or since converted to push-pull?

Don't know about all of them, but at least some are push pull...sometimes using diesel power, sometimes dual mode.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:56 pm

bleet wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:Are the 300 series locals still Arrows or since converted to push-pull?

Don't know about all of them, but at least some are push pull...sometimes using diesel power, sometimes dual mode.


Yup. Equipment is whatever works out with scheduling. However, these days it seems that push-pulls are indeed the norm and often, they are diesel sets.
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:18 pm

Is there a track diagram avaible of the Summit area?
That will help with this thread. thx
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Re: "Pocket Track" at Summit

Postby nick11a » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:07 pm

None that is published on line that I know of, but you could use Google Earth or something similar to get an idea. The approximate location of where this track would be would be at the point where the Gladstone Branch splits from the Morristown Line.
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