Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby JPhurst » Fri May 10, 2013 3:13 pm

I guess this works. My biggest problem with the Tenafly opposition is that based on the prior choices, taking it out of Tenafly meant excluding most of Englewood. But if that's been resolved, then it's Tenafly's loss that they don't seem to care about.

Presumably it could be built in a way that would allow future expansion if Tenafly ever catches a case of "Me Tooism" instead of NIMBYism?

I basically want to take a ride to Palisades Park to King Spa and Fitness and some of the Korean restaurants. So I'd be happy with this!
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby M&Eman » Tue May 14, 2013 10:38 am

I'm glad this is finally going forward in a way that includes Englewood. To Hell with Tenafly. HBLR is going to be important for "metropolitanizing" Jersey City, making it a true commercial and cultural anchor for the west shore of the Hudson and helping NJ catch up to NYC in economic recovery. Given the decline of the suburban office park, it is the path NJ has to take.
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby Patrick Boylan » Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 am

I hate to get too far away from rail, but to what decline of what suburban office park do you refer?
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby SightUnseen » Tue May 14, 2013 12:00 pm

Patrick Boylan wrote:I hate to get too far away from rail, but to what decline of what suburban office park do you refer?

I think he's saying that in general. Hertz and Roche (well sorta) are recent companies that are in the process of moving their suburban corporate campuses outside of NJ for one reason or another (taxes mostly).
I'm kinda surprised that no one has tried to take advantage of NJ's Urban transit hub tax credit along the HBLR. Especially as it's been used recently in Newark with Panasonic and the Prudential.
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue May 14, 2013 1:15 pm

SightUnseen wrote:
Patrick Boylan wrote:I hate to get too far away from rail, but to what decline of what suburban office park do you refer?

I think he's saying that in general. Hertz and Roche (well sorta) are recent companies that are in the process of moving their suburban corporate campuses outside of NJ for one reason or another (taxes mostly).
I'm kinda surprised that no one has tried to take advantage of NJ's Urban transit hub tax credit along the HBLR. Especially as it's been used recently in Newark with Panasonic and the Prudential.


What about all the businesses in Jersey City and Weehawken that have sprung up post-HBLR. You have to imagine they're getting some of that tax credit.
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby Patrick Boylan » Tue May 14, 2013 3:19 pm

I would be interested to see the statistics that might show there's a general decline of suburban office parks, and not just examples of 2 companies that moved out of the state without mentioning if they just went to a suburban office park somewhere else, or examples of businesses springing up without mentioning if they vacated suburban office parks which had trouble finding tenants to replace them.
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby SightUnseen » Tue May 14, 2013 5:46 pm

Patrick Boylan wrote:I would be interested to see the statistics that might show there's a general decline of suburban office parks, and not just examples of 2 companies that moved out of the state without mentioning if they just went to a suburban office park somewhere else, or examples of businesses springing up without mentioning if they vacated suburban office parks which had trouble finding tenants to replace them.


Can't speak for the original poster—I just added some companies that were in the news recently. Hertz is moving to FL because tourism (makes sense!) Roche is moving out San Francisco because that's where their parent company is HQ'd and to offices in NYC. Doesn't mean that suburban office parks are dying, but there is statistical evidence that college grads over the last 20 years are drawn more to cities than to suburbans. One can hypothesize that companies have to go where the workforce is or where the hot bed of the industry is. You also have to factor taxes which we all know NJ has high taxes.

Moving back a little on how this equates to light rail in a few ways
1. Roche is located right next to abandoned ROW that runs from Newark almost to Paterson. We've all mentioned the possibility of light rail running there. This might make stoke the fires for a feasibility study if the Nutley and Clifton are looking for ways to fill the void
2. Use of the Urban Transit hub tax credit has encourages economic growth and use of mass transit in urban areas. Systems like the HBLR, NLR, the River line and commuter rail are valuable assets in promoting this. Christie has been pushing the tax credit especially in Newark to draw interest to downtown, to make the city less dependent on state aid, and promote job growth. The new Panasonic HQ in Newark is next to Newark Penn and they plan building a plant in Harrison. Prudential is building their new office tower(s) right across from the Military Park light rail station. The same benefits could draw people to Jersey City and surrounding communities
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Re: HBLR Expansion

Postby Adirondacker » Tue May 14, 2013 7:01 pm

Ken W2KB wrote:Two forms of pollution come to mind. (1) the exhaust from automobiles driven to the lightrail parking lot,


...versus the people who live in town and drive all the way to work or the people in Cresskill who could drive halfway across Tenafly and get on the train but who will drive all the way across town to get to the train in Englewood.

Ken W2KB wrote: and/or (2) the increase in electric generation requirements which results in the burning of more fossil fuels. I suspect the automobile exhaust is the prime concern.


But the choice isn't "sit at home" versus 'taking the train" the choice is "take the train" or "drive the car". The Northeast's electrical generation is relative clean. Firing up the natural gas peaking plant so the train can run is going to be cleaner and more efficient than driving cars around.

He brought it up because most people don't think about things like that. Apparently not the Mayor either.
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Progress in HBLR Expansion?

Postby Iron Horse » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:56 pm

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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:41 am

Brief, fair-use quote from above link:

Bergen County legislators urge feds to advance light rail extension to Englewood

In December 2011, NJ Transit published a Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the project that considered two options to have the line terminate either in Tenafly or at Route 4 in Englewood. NJ Transit decided to end the line in between at Englewood Hospital after Tenafly residents strongly opposed the line in public comments.

The Federal Transit Administration is expected to decide in the next few weeks whether NJ Transit can proceed with the current impact statement even though the Englewood Hospital plan is different from the two routes the statement covers.

Legislators, in a press statement expressing support for the Northern Branch plan, said the Federal Transit Administration should finalize the current impact statement.

"To spend more money on another study, with minimal differences, would be an absolute waste," Cardinale said. "Let's just move this forward."
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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby Hawaiitiki » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:47 pm

http://www.northjersey.com/news/city-ur ... -1.1056097

"The Englewood Economic Development Corporation co-wrote a letter with Mayor Frank Huttle III, to voice their support for the Route C4 proposed in a Bergen County Bus Rapid Transit study. This letter, along with a secondary letter by Englewood Hospital and Medical Center supporting the system, were sent to NJ Transit on July 15. - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/city-ur ... HRwYz.dpuf"

I think they should put all their eggs in the HBLR basket. I hope NJT doesn't agree to this as a "viable alternative" to Light Rail.
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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby SightUnseen » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:37 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:http://www.northjersey.com/news/city-urges-nj-transit-to-support-brt-line-1.1056097

"The Englewood Economic Development Corporation co-wrote a letter with Mayor Frank Huttle III, to voice their support for the Route C4 proposed in a Bergen County Bus Rapid Transit study. This letter, along with a secondary letter by Englewood Hospital and Medical Center supporting the system, were sent to NJ Transit on July 15. - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/city-ur ... HRwYz.dpuf"

I think they should put all their eggs in the HBLR basket. I hope NJT doesn't agree to this as a "viable alternative" to Light Rail.

I don't think EEDC is trying to undermine the light rail given how much the Englewood and NJT have worked to make the Northern Branch viable. If anything they are trying to make Englewood a mass transit hub to draw more people to the town.
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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby 25Hz » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:36 am

What can you say, people are too stupid to know what's good for them. With the booming economy and development on the hudson river side of jersey city & bayonne's planned ship/rail intermodal expansion and the jobs it brings along, anyone opposing the proper expansion to tie the area together is in my own opinion the worst type of NIMBY, the kind people loathe for decades after they get their way.
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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby Defiant » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:19 am

25Hz wrote:What can you say, people are too stupid to know what's good for them. With the booming economy and development on the hudson river side of jersey city & bayonne's planned ship/rail intermodal expansion and the jobs it brings along, anyone opposing the proper expansion to tie the area together is in my own opinion the worst type of NIMBY, the kind people loathe for decades after they get their way.

Agree 100%. But unfortunately, it seems like most of the US suburban dwellers are opposed to expanding train/light rail. That is what is holding up a lot of train expansion projects, such as MOM, California High speed rail and many others. That is why the "esteemed" governor of this state was reelected after canceling a historic project to provide more inter Hudson rail capacity.

Most suburbanites are probably too invested to driving and think that trains are "expensive". At the same time, highway/roads expansion is considered essential.
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Re: Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

Postby kilroy » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:04 pm

Most suburbanites are afraid the riff-raff from the city will jump a train to rob their house. Now way "those people" would ever steal a car and drive to their home to rob them.
Why do we drive on parkways and park in driveways?
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