NYSW Passenger Service Restoration

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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby waldwickrailfan » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:27 pm

airman00 wrote:You would think in a emergency type situation (as this is due to damage from Irene) that you could cut through the red tape. That is at least to run something temporary if neccesary.


well if they would enter service say today, there would be a few problems.
1) very few people would know, you would need at least a week to make it public.
2) where would they stop? many of the old stations like Wyckoff, Midland Park, and Beaver lake dont have platforms anymore.
3) how would they keep schedule? i know bk said before you would need form D's all the way up the line. the only way this would work would be if you ran trains passing each other at CP-Hall and the transfer in Hawthorne.

just some thoughts
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby cruiser939 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:43 pm

uzplayer wrote:Just for my education, as I understand that NJT / Metro North is using the NYSW Railline to cycle trainsets in and out, what is preventing NJT / Metro North from offering some sort of limited test service and picking up passengers at designated stops?

Since you are cycling sets up and down anyway, this might provide for a great real-world test to see if people would in fact ride from stops along the NYSW. Would also make up for some of the lost revenue moving trains to and from the Port Jervis Line on the NYSW.

Just a thought.


<redacted by site admin: viewtopic.php?f=69&t=85454>

Reminder from above link:
Railroaders:Show a little tolerance of railfans. The flip side of the argument is they don't have your inside knowledge of the working of things. I was there, and still am on a lot of railroad subjects. I do have a much better understanding now, thanks to your sharing of knowledge. I understand its frustrating when what you perceive to be amateurs (and in many cases rightfully so) give you grief when you know better. That's not an excuse for belittling them.


Back to the response:


What prevents these equipment moves from becoming an actual service? A multitude of reasons.

1. NJT nor MN has a contract with NYS&W to run passenger service on their railroad.
2. NJT personnel are not qualified over the railroad and NYS&W personnel are not qualified on NJT equipment. At current, pilots are being used. For your plan to work, 2 crews (one from each railroad) would be required.
3. None of the stations along the NYS&W are able to meet DCA code for passenger service. Building new stations and getting them certified would take longer than this "equipment shuttle" will last. Doing work on the existing stations would also be difficult as several are on the New Jersey and National Registers of Historic Places.
4. These are equipment moves. They are sporadic and only done on an as needed basis. They are closely coordinated with NYS&W so as to not conflict with their own trains. There is no way to produce a public timetable for these moves so I fail to see how you expect your phantom riding public to know about the schedule. (not like they could get back for some time since the moves are so irregular)
5. Your "making up lost revenue" idea is uninformed. For NJT, this is a break-even operation since MN compensates us for the service. For MN, this service does not break even (big surprise right?). So in fact as the cards lay now, MN isn't losing revenue; they are in fact losing less money then they were before. Just one of the subtleties of railroad economics that you don't seem to be picking up on.

Would it be cool, sure. Would it be practical, absolutely not. Can we please move on from this?

Class dismissed.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby cruiser939 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:11 pm

amtrakowitz wrote:You sound like you don't like where you work.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. If you aren't, what exactly makes you think that I don't enjoy my place of employment?
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby cobra30689 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:23 pm

The world is a better place when you add cheese.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby Uzi-Cat » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:42 pm

cobra30689 wrote:The world is a better place when you add cheese.



Cheese wrapped in bacon!
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby northjerseybuff » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:29 am

I recall in the mid 90s when SUSCON interlocking was put in place and mock schedules came out that NJT was seriously considering establishing service on this route. This was also around the time of the construction of Secaucus Jct. It appears that maybe A. NJT wasn't as serious as I thought or B. plans changed and they focused on THE tunnel and buying new rail cars..locomotives..etc. Maybe cruiser can fill us in more..I'm curious to know myself if the priority of it changed as it did seem NJT did have it eyed out 15 years ago.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby OportRailfan » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:33 pm

uzplayer wrote:
While I appreciate your explanation, there is no reason for you to surround it with your condescending attitude. Please read the original post. I was looking for the reason why and to educate myself.

I have reported this response to the moderators.


I too reported this post, as I can't withstand the awesomeness of cheese.

Cruiser, way to hurt peoples' fragile feelings. I'll make sure Kaback and Nick give you cheese detention.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby amtrakowitz » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:30 pm

Alas, cheese explains it all. Beware
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby uzplayer » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Actually, when I hit the "report" button, it said "this post has already been reported." So it wasn't me who did it first.

For the record, I like cheese. :)
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby sixty-six » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:33 pm

uzplayer wrote:Actually, when I hit the "report" button, it said "this post has already been reported." So it wasn't me who did it first.

For the record, I like cheese. :)


I don't like cheese, so I also reported a useless post.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby uzplayer » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:33 pm

In any case, back to the topic at hand...Thank you all for the facts. At the end, you all make good points. Definitely the idea is not feasible.
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby Kaback9 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:43 pm

Here you guys can look at this picture to sort of get us back on topic.

http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2742399
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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby cruiser939 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:11 am

northjerseybuff wrote:I recall in the mid 90s when SUSCON interlocking was put in place and mock schedules came out that NJT was seriously considering establishing service on this route. This was also around the time of the construction of Secaucus Jct. It appears that maybe A. NJT wasn't as serious as I thought or B. plans changed and they focused on THE tunnel and buying new rail cars..locomotives..etc. Maybe cruiser can fill us in more..I'm curious to know myself if the priority of it changed as it did seem NJT did have it eyed out 15 years ago.

NJT has many things that we plan/forecast on. Yes this service was one of them but just because work went into it does not indicate the level of commitment that NJT had towards the project.
To loosely quote Capt. Jack Aubrey from the movie Master and Commander: "NJT runs a railroad, not a private yacht! WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR DAMNED HOBBIES, SIR!"

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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby uzplayer » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:26 am

cruiser939 wrote:This project is supposed to be your baby! How could someone who thinks they're as well versed in all things related to activating new rail service not know the hurdles involved with what you planned? Every time you bring up this project, I attempt to explain to you why it isn't viable. Then you go off and tell me how I'm a failure at my job, you're not an average railfan (kinda like Yogi not being your average bear or something like that; maybe you're a railfan who steals picnic baskets?), you're an expert in the marketing field, your facebook page is the end all source for NYS&W restoration info, and because a few citizens in the area support your ideas that you can't be wrong. We've heard it all before.
Thanks for the heads up! I totally would have had no idea who reported it when nothing happens to me for making a factual posts which happened to debunk your ideas.


Cruiser... A lot of people including myself have moved on from that last conversation...and while I do have more knowledge then your average "railfan" as you so like to put it, at the end, I rely on sites like this, the people on here and my research to come to the right conclusions, frame the right arguments and ultimately facilitate the change that needs to be done.

At the end, I have absolutely no problem with your arguments or facts. In fact, I welcome them as what you and everyone else says here always challenges me to come up with my own opinions and explanations on why something is the way it is, so that I can back my points up appropriately.

What I do not like is the attitude and sarcasm that accompany your posts on this board.

You just continue to disrespect everyone on this board who does not agree with you by engaging in sarcasm and stupidity, ringing people out on their views, belittling people who ask questions and much more. I have been a member here for a very VERY long time and at the end, I take no issue with ANYONE else on this board but yourself.

At the end, you need to grow up and start treating people with respect.

That's all I have to say in the matter. Feel free to continue with your sarcastic responses and direct them to this virtual brick wall, which I have conveniently placed at the end of this message thread.

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Re: NJT / Metro North Moves over the NYSW

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:34 pm

Clean-up, aisle 69 (for those who think that a perverse reference, it's appropriately also the number of this forum; see URL).

Apologies for any collateral damage.

See my link to the "cut the crap" request topic prominently stickied at the top of the thread at an earlier, edited post. While I may sometimes sympathize with the nature of the response, it doesn't mean we can allow it.

I also like cheese. Muenster is my preference. Or PepperJack (w/Jalapeno's). Don't flame me bro! (On my selection of cheese). Or I'll sic my South Plainfield posse' on youse guys. Or Manalapan. I've got friends all over Jersey....... mandatory wink ;-)

Kaback, nice photo.

No explanations required, sought, or desired. I think the disagreement was resolved. I remind you all, you can also query the moderators of the forum when you have an issue with a thread or post. Feel free to copy me on it, but I can assure you Nick and Kaback will be neutral in moderation.

As for the topic, I think to avoid future flames and responses we'll lock as the query was asked and answered.
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