Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

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Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:46 pm

Saw this link elsewhere. Seems their performance (or lackthereof) on the 179 contract has precluded their participation in the 211 contract.
http://montrealgazette.com/business/local-business/bombardier-shut-out-of-n-y-subway-contract-because-of-poor-performance-report

In an internal memo, Benoît Brossoit, the president of Bombardier Transport for the Americas, is quoted as noting that “our poor performance and serious delays … sealed the fate of our bid. Our actions exacerbated an already difficult transit situation in New York, and our client’s decision shows that the market is no longer disposed to accept delays in performance and to submit to the consequences of our actions.”
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby BuddCar711 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:52 am

Looks like Hyundai Rotem moved up a step in potential candidates :wink:
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:11 pm

They need to stick to building automobiles...and this is coming from someone who has driven a Hyundai for the last eight years ;)
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby railfan365 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:08 pm

I expect that who ever they buy form, NYC transit will have their usual focus on the latest technology.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:57 pm

GirlOnTheTrain wrote:They need to stick to building automobiles...and this is coming from someone who has driven a Hyundai for the last eight years ;)

There's always room for improvement at Rotem, just like when Huyndai automobiles first came to U.S., they were of questionable reliability, now improved to match the major brands.

This would be a blow to the Plattsburgh assembly plant, which opened in December 1995 to serve MTA and gain benefits for "made in NY" programs. BBD has major investments there, including expansion to allow full stainless steel welding and fabrication with car shells built on site.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby Head-end View » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:39 pm

What sort of problems is Bombardier having building the R-179's and why? Haven't they been a relatively good builder in past years?
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:35 pm

At this point they're about 3 years behind schedule.

There were the welding cracks that set the project back 2 years, etc.

This is an old post from Second Avenue Sagas but it's a good summary of what the deal is: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/08/14/as-bombardier-struggles-r179-delay-to-cost-mta-50-million/
Yet, a closer look at the MTA’s board documents from early 2012 [pdf] reveals some early caution flags. Bombardier’s bid of $599 million for the rolling stock order came in under a bid by an Alstom/Kawaski. In its board materials, the MTA noted a cost savings of around $12.4 million — a total that has been completely wiped away by Bombardier’s late delivery. The bid assessment notes that Bombardier’s technical presentation was “acceptable” but that the ALSKAW bid “ranked higher” in “technical merit.” In other words, ALSKAW was better positioned to deliver on the specs of the R179 order, but Bombardier offered a better price. Since the MTA hadn’t disqualified Bombardier, the company won the contract, and here we are.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:53 pm

BBD was late with the M-7 order to LIRR and MN,and at some point leased LIRR's Arch street shop to do warranty work.
Also past history on other major projects has come back to roost at BBD HQ from both sides of the Alantic(ie,London,and Europe).
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby trainbrain » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:54 pm

Assuming they both bid, MTA will be going with Kawasaki or Alstom for sure. They both have plants in NY. I know that Alstom is bidding, but I am not sure about Kawasaki. I think Kawasaki has the best record in MTA contracts among the manufacturers. Apart from the really weird design of the LIRR bi-levels, I don't think they've really had any major problems with MTA contracts. Their first one was the R62's in the 80's, and those cars were considered to be the most reliable in the fleet until the R142's and R142A's started arriving. Since then they've done the R68A's, R142A's, R160B's, and R188's. On MNCR they have done the M8's and LIRR and MNCR will be getting M9's in the near future.

Bombardier has done a great job with the Multilevels and ALP-46, ALP-46A, and ALP-45DP locomotives on NJT. Not sure why they've botched some other projects lately.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:15 am

Kawasaki is bidding with Alstom in the same manner that Bombardier was teaming up with that Chinese company that's building the new MBTA cars before they were told to beat it in regards to this bid process.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby trainbrain » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:17 pm

How exactly does one company bid with another? Do they have the plan to split various portions of the contract, for example using Kawasaki car bodies and Alstom propulsion?

I believe Siemens is also bidding on the R211.

We should make a list on here as to what companies bid. So far we have:

Alstom/Kawasaki
Siemens
Hyundai Rotem
Chinese company that's making MBTA's nee equipment.

Anyone know of any others?
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:25 pm

CRRC was bidding in conjunction with Bombardier, so that's a nope. Rotem and Siemens are speculation from...here? - so about all that's concrete is Kawasaki/Alstom...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newyork-subway-kawasakiheavy/kawasaki-vying-for-3-2-billion-new-york-subway-order-idUSKCN1BC3CS

I can't find anything mentioning Rotem or Siemens in conjunction with the 211's, only California stuff. If anyone actually has any references otherwise, do share.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby Head-end View » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:34 pm

I'm surprised to hear that Bombardier is having big problems. Although the delivery of the M-7's to LIRR/Metro-North may have been late, LIRR at least is generally satisfied with them.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby trainbrain » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:26 pm

GirlOnTheTrain wrote:CRRC was bidding in conjunction with Bombardier, so that's a nope. Rotem and Siemens are speculation from...here? - so about all that's concrete is Kawasaki/Alstom...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newyork-subway-kawasakiheavy/kawasaki-vying-for-3-2-billion-new-york-subway-order-idUSKCN1BC3CS

I can't find anything mentioning Rotem or Siemens in conjunction with the 211's, only California stuff. If anyone actually has any references otherwise, do share.


Well if Rotem or Siemens isn't bidding, the Kawasaki/Alstom it is.
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Re: Bombardier shut out of R211 contract

Postby tommyboy6181 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:15 am

It actually could bring out some new potential bidders knowing Bombardier is out. Ever since Hitachi bought out AnsaldoBreda, Hitachi fixed a ton of their issues and they're finally able to produce railcars on time. Knowing Hitachi wants to re-establish itself in the US Market, you never know. They might be interested.
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