Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construction

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:23 pm

trainbrain wrote:<SNIP>Another thing I forgot to mention: The Bronx extension that I mentioned earlier had all 5 trains going up WP Road with the 2. However, the terminal at Wakefied 241st Street probably can't handle both services. It might be a better idea to have 5 trains split between the WP Road and Pelham Lines if the Q ever takes over Dyre Ave. This would give Pelham Line passengers access to an express service in Manhattan.


I think it's been said on here elsewhere the WP Road line is pretty close to capacity, and turns are tough. In addition, the Dyre Ave. only has tail tracks, and no yard to speak of.

Another issue is the difference in A and B division cars. You can't run a Q up WP Road. You might have the clearance on the Dyre, but you'd have to modify all the platforms, and/or reinstate the express tracks from the NYW&B days.

I think if you want it in the Bronx, you'd either have to:

- tie it in to the Concourse Line (B Division),
- run it up the right of way of the NEC to Co-Op City (a former 6-track ROW as far as West Farms/180)

While I like the idea of a reborn 3rd Avenue line in the Bronx (albeit subway vs el), I don't think that will ever happen. I think they'd extend the Concourse line first. As others have said, we'll be lucky to get Phase III or IV.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Jeff Smith » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:38 pm

Pretty in-depth. Likely not realistic, of course, but worth a look: http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index ... nue-subway
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Paul1705 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:53 pm

This is a bit of nit-picking perhaps, but the upper White Plains Road line (180th Street and north) was built to Dual-Contract standards so therefore, supposedly, it could be converted to the B division. (The only real world example of this happening I think was the conversion of the Astoria line from IRT to BMT in the late 1940s.)

In fact White Plains Road was one of the options in play during the Second Avenue subway planning of the 1960s and 1970s.

The biggest problem now is that the old NW&B trestle, which had been owned by the city and then the MTA for decades, has been demolished. To really finish that off the real estate parcels from 177th to 180th have been sold and some of the have been filled with new apartment houses.

The original NW&B station, with four tracks and two platforms, is still there but now there is no access from the south.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Jeff Smith » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:13 pm

They'd have to find some way of bypassing that area... not sure how. Selling those parcels was a mistake.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Paul1705 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 pm

It would definitely have been preferable to preserve those parcels.

After its first few years the MTA hasn't thought in long-term time frames. In 1968-69 they were willing to release a program that was vast by today's standards and yet was expected to be done in maybe fifteen years, possibly twenty in more realistic terms.

Since they got "burned" in the 1970s, the MTA has not planned that way. Right now, they are concerned with rehabbing the existing system, finishing LIRR East Side Access and then, if they can get the money together, get to Phase II of the Second Avenue subway. Probably Metro-North service on the Hell Gate line will happen because it's relatively inexpensive. Anything else rail-based in the Bronx or the other outer boroughs is beyond their interests for the time being.
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