Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construction

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Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construction

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:27 pm

For discussion of continuing construction of the Second Avenue Subway after the long-awaited opening of Phase I.

Previous discussion: Second Ave Subway Construction thru Phase I open

Operation of the 2nd Avenue line here: Second Avenue Subway Operations
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:46 pm

I haven't anything to add here of consequence, but allow me to share that I can recall being in NY, oh about age 10 during the 50's, and wanting to take a ride on the 3rd Avenue El.

I was with my Mother and Grandmother, and be it assured the latter, who resided at 880 Fifth Ave (69th St), was sure she was having to go, oh let's just say, "somewhere she never had had to go". My Mother was a bit more receptive.

Likely we boarded at 76th Street and got off at 47th. Return was in Grandmother's normal conveyance; a taxicab.

But even back then my Grandmother said they will have a new Subway along 2nd Ave "after they get that thing torn down".

Someday, we might build needed infrastructure just as we did during the Depression, instead of "higgiling and piggiling" about it.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby railfan365 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:06 am

I expect that it will be a while until anyone will something significant to post here - even though I see the sense of having this topic. That's because: 1. They're only now just planning the early work of the engineering studies and utility relocation for Phase II; 2. The 1.5 billion is what Phase II has out of the 2015 - 2016 capitol budget with the next budget 4 - 5 years away, and 3. With MTA's history, which includes starting on Phase II with Phase I nearing completion, we have quite a loong wait for anything to be done on Phase III or beyond.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Head-end View » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:21 pm

Call me a pessimist, but given the sordid history of this project, some of us are predicting that the rest of it never gets built at all, as the costs will continue to skyrocket and the money will never be found to make it happen. It's interesting that this first section (all of 3 miles!) was built to serve the most affluent section of the city affected by the loss of the 3rd Ave. el. Just watch as the poorer areas north and south get left out in the cold. So let's enjoy the 3 new stations that get the benefit of this project, 'cause that may be all we ever see of it and there may never be a "T" line after all.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Greg Moore » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:36 pm

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... ay-phase-2 has a nice overview of the costs of the project and how it compares to others around the world.

I do think we need a way to dramatically drop the costs of this project.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby railfan365 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:53 pm

Head-end View wrote:Call me a pessimist, but given the sordid history of this project, some of us are predicting that the rest of it never gets built at all, as the costs will continue to skyrocket and the money will never be found to make it happen. It's interesting that this first section (all of 3 miles!) was built to serve the most affluent section of the city affected by the loss of the 3rd Ave. el. Just watch as the poorer areas north and south get left out in the cold. So let's enjoy the 3 new stations that get the benefit of this project, 'cause that may be all we ever see of it and there may never be a "T" line after all.


First, to emphasise the thrust of your emphasis, it's not even 3 miles - it's a mile and a half.

It's long established that "money talks", and it's not lost on me that Phase I mainly benefits the rich fancies of UES. However, while I share your pessimism about Phase III and anything further getting done - I can see it going either way on Phase II.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Head-end View » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:22 pm

Railfan365, how are you measuring the distance? Just the section along 2nd Ave, or all the way from 57 St. and 7th Ave. where the new line actually begins?
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby lpetrich » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:21 pm

I've seen some rumors that Phase II won't be using the tunnels built in the 1970's, but will instead go beneath them. Anything on that oddity?
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby railfan365 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:58 pm

Head-end View wrote:Railfan365, how are you measuring the distance? Just the section along 2nd Ave, or all the way from 57 St. and 7th Ave. where the new line actually begins?


My statement of distance is what was opened for revenue service - 63rd/3rd until 96th/2nd. I answer this way because that, plus extending though the section of tunnel to 105th Street and going down to 62nd is what they just spent $4.5 billion and almost ten years building.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby railfan365 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:03 pm

lpetrich wrote:I've seen some rumors that Phase II won't be using the tunnels built in the 1970's, but will instead go beneath them. Anything on that oddity?


It's already been announced that Phase I finally puts to use the section of tunnel from the 1970's that goes from 99th to 105th Street. (The part of Phase I that's North of 96th Street is being used for off hour car storage.) Phase II WILL include the section of tunnel from the 1970's that goes from 110th to 120th Streets, which will have parts of the wall broken out as necessary to build a station at 116th Street. The only other section of tunnel that was built in the 1970's is in Chinatown. That's the old work that won't be incorporated into anything.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Passenger » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:54 pm

By relieving the crowding on the Lex, it also benefits people who will not be riding it (from the Bronx on down).
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby CarterB » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:42 pm

What, if any, work has been done south of 63rd to 23rd? Current or prior. What "Phase" will extend anything south of 63rd and by when?
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:26 pm

I don't think anything was done except that piece below 23rd, which I think was the Christie Street Connector?
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby rr503 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:38 pm

No. Christie st. goes from approx. Bway Lafayette St Station (under Houston) to Essex on the Jamaica Line and the north tracks of the Manhattan Bridge.

I think there is a section they finished somewhere in Chinatown, but I don't know exactly where it is.
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Phase II - IV Planning / Construct

Postby Head-end View » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:13 pm

CarterB, that will be Phase III from 63rd to 23rd. I'm pretty sure I'll never see it in my lifetime as I'm lately becoming a senior-citizen, but if you're young enough, you might see it, if in fact it ever gets built at all, which I kind of doubt given how long it took to complete Phase I. Good luck! :-D
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