L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closure

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby DogBert » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:22 am

It comes with a few weeks of weekend shut downs though...
DogBert
 
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:08 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby railfan365 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm not surprised that the shutdown will be for only 15 months. Compared with taking 3 years for working in a single tracked tunnel, working in a totally shut down tunnel not only allows work to go on in both sides at the same time, but workers aren't dodging passing trains.
railfan365
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:55 am

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby trainbrain » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:00 am

The M normally runs to Forest Hills on weekdays, Delancey Street on evenings and weekends, and Myrtle Ave during late nights. Are there any plans to extend it to Forest Hills at all times or at least on weekends during the L train shutdown? This would eliminate some double or triple transfers that some people would need to do to reach Midtown.
trainbrain
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:11 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Allan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:06 pm

From what I have heard, it is planned to extend the M to 96th St/2nd Av on weekends
Allan
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:10 am
Location: Bronx, NY

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby trainbrain » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:10 pm

Not sure why they'd run it there instead of Forest Hills.

I think it should be running to Forest Hills at least on weekends. One of the quirks still around from the 2001 reroute of the F to 63rd Street is that customers boarding at 6th Avenue stations can't get to the western batch of local stations on Queens Boulevard without transferring 2 or 3 times. If the M is running, it's a one seat ride. When the F ran via 53rd one could transfer to the R during daytime hours and the E during late nights at Queens Plaza.
trainbrain
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 7:11 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby railfan365 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:27 pm

Back then, pne didn't have to go the Queens Plaza - the E and F overlapped at 5th Avenue and Lexington Avenue. But definitely, when the M isn't running it will be a bother for F train riders to get to the Queens Boulevard Stations between Roosevelt Avenue and the river.
railfan365
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:55 am

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:17 pm

Shutdown date set: secondavenuesagas.com

April 27, 2019

Great site on NYC transit!
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7974
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby GojiMet86 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:27 pm

Cuomo stops Shutdown:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyre ... tdown.html

Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

By Emma G. Fitzsimmons and Shane Goldmacher
Jan. 3, 2019


Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Thursday that the L train subway tunnel would not fully shut down in April as planned in what would have been one of the biggest transit disruptions in New York City’s recent history.

The L train shutdown was scheduled to begin April 27 and last 15 months, crippling a key piece of the city’s transportation network. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the subway, had said the closing was necessary to repair damage from Hurricane Sandy in 2012, when the tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn was inundated by floodwaters.

Under a new plan unveiled by Mr. Cuomo the work would be done on nights and weekends. He said not fulling closing the L train would be a “phenomenal benefit to the people of New York City.’’

It was not yet clear what alternatives the M.T.A. would choose. The authority, for example, could choose to do the work on nights and weekends.

For months, subway officials have been preparing for the closing and planning alternate routes for commuters to reach Manhattan, which have included a significant expansion of bus service and adding bike lanes. When the shutdown was announced in 2016, the news prompted panic in Brooklyn over what it meant for real estate and local businesses to be choked off from Manhattan.

Last month, Mr. Cuomo, who controls the subway, toured the L train tunnel with engineering experts to see if there was another way to undertake the repair work.

“If there’s a better way of doing it, they tell us there’s a better way of doing it,” Mr. Cuomo said at the time. “If there’s not a better way of doing it, they say that’s the best that it can be done.”

The transit agency initially said the shutdown would be 18 months and later shortened it to 15 months. Subway officials had considered two proposals — a shorter, full closing of the tunnel or a partial three-year shutdown that would have allowed some trains to continue running.

They chose the full closure in an effort to do it quickly and limit the inconvenience for riders.
User avatar
GojiMet86
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:04 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:24 am

Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7974
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 pm

So the NYCTA/MTA figured out the best way to repair the tunnels was to DEMO everything and start from scratch,and get it done in a year plus 3 months.
Instead Gov Cuomo HALTS the whole project to placate NIMBYs on both sides of the East River! :P
The given is everything needs to go and replaced with new material,the brackish water from the East River damaged everything
the patching and work arounds are failing in the tunnels.
Amtrak has also figured out the same needs to done on the North(Hudson )River tubes, DEMO everything,then start from scratch NEW everything
from the cast iron outer sleeve.

Gov Cuomo,Go back to Albany and make sure the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ needed is there,let NYCTA/MTA and Amtrak tend to the work need in the tunnels and tubes!
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:54 pm

More: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/nyre ... tdown.html

Is the Fix for the L-Train Apocalypse Too Good to Be True?

...
The solution, developed by a team of engineers from Columbia and Cornell Universities over the last month, relies on a “racking system” to house the tunnel’s cables on the wall, instead of encasing them inside a separate structure, known as a bench wall.
...
Michael Horodniceanu, the authority’s former president of capital construction, said the new solution might only last 15 to 20 years while the earlier proposal, calling for a full rehabilitation, could last more than 80 years.
...
Mr. Byford, who has led the subway for a year and pledged to turn around terrible service, said the agency had considered a racking system for the L train project before his arrival, but there were concerns about “slinging the cables off what is a very old tunnel.” He said the panel of experts had found a way to make it feasible.

Mr. Byford said he had started a “due diligence exercise” to get answers to some of his “outstanding questions” about the new repair plan, like whether removing unstable parts of the bench wall could create silica dust that would be hazardous to riders.
...
In fact, in London, the subway has hung power and signal cables on its tunnel walls using brackets, shelves and other fixtures since the system was founded in 1863, often because there was no choice. Most of its tunnels are too narrow to accommodate bench walls. The cables, which are hung on the sides of walls and also overhead, run along parts of the deepest and most narrow tunnels, including the Northern, Central and Bakerloo lines.

Officials at Transport for London, the operator of the London Underground, said it was easier to repair and maintain the cables when they are not built in the walls. Although the cables can be vulnerable to leaks and track fires, officials said that it is not a major problem because the cables can easily be inspected and repaired.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7974
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:57 pm

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2019/01/andr ... shine.html

...
Those experts were from the engineering schools at Columbia and Cornell universities. When they looked at the damage caused to those two tunnels by Hurricane Sandy, they concluded that there was a more efficient way to address the two problem areas than shutting the tunnels down.

One problem was the wiring, which is at the bottom of the tube and got soaked in sections. Instead of repairing it in place, they suggested running new wiring at the top of the tunnels. Problem solved.

The other was damage to the “bench walls,” the concrete paths running alongside the train. The prior plan had been to replace the entire bench wall. The profs suggested fixing only the problem areas, which are relatively small.
...
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7974
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:06 pm

Patching the bench walls is a short term fix,all the power distribution cables are in the duct bank to begin with!
The only proper fix is DEMO and build new,that's what is needed here!
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:06 am

Additional opinion from The Times regarding "Andy's political quick fix":

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/opin ... cuomo.html

Fair Use:

...In 2012, Superstorm Sandy infiltrated the Canarsie Tunnel, which carries the L train under the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Seven million gallons of corrosive saltwater damaged the tube structure, the tracks and ties, and signal and other electrical equipment.

The repairs needed on the tunnel are extensive, and the engineering plans to make it more resilient in future storms are complex and took considerable time to develop.

The solution identified by the engineers and consultants of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, who have expertise with both subways and under-river tunnels, was designed to evaluate the integrity of the tunnel and produce a permanent fix. That project, involving shutting down the tunnel for 15 months, was supposed to begin in April


"Feedback" whether or not there's a "knothole in the paywall". Being a Times subscriber, I have no way of knowing.
Gilbert B Norman
 
Posts: 13622
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Chicago Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: L Train BMT Canarsie Line 14th St Tunnel Manhattan Closu

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:24 pm

Since this was written by a past president of the TA, Coomo's "bright idea" has too many risks, too much of a patch/repair "quick fix"
for this gentleman's taste. Believes the TA/MTA has the right idea, DEMO the entire tunnel interior and build new!
1 year and 3 months is not that bad and you get a safer tunnel under the East River.
Tell the NIMBY's to "stuff it". :P Do it right and be done!
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 5688
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to NYC MTA Subway and Rail, PATH and SIRT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests