R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

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R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby GojiMet86 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:35 am

A PDF:
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/gover ... erings.pdf


https://twitter.com/MTA/status/755062291058614273

Bidding to start at end of July for 1,025 new @NYCTSubway cars. @NYGovCuomo emphasizes proposed new features
.

https://twitter.com/MTA/status/755063401945133056

750 new @NYCTSubway cars anticipated to have open gangway design. More open spaces means more passenger mobility, less crowding. @NYGovCuomo




ImageModernize the MTA by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

ImageModernize the MTA by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

ImageModernize the MTA by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

ImageModernize the MTA by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
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Re: R211

Postby rr503 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:47 pm

So they're bringing colored end signs back? That'd be nice
I like the look of the renderings. Let's just hope they aren't crazily delayed.
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Re: R211

Postby Head-end View » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:30 pm

Yes, bringing back the color-coded route end-signs would be excellent. I never understood why the TA did away with them on the current generation of trains. What good is having color-coded routes if the signs on the trains don't show the color?
Last edited by Head-end View on Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:11 pm

Goji, thanks for the photos, etc. Here's some more information about the cars:

Daily News

Gov. Cuomo unveils designs for new subway cars and renovated MTA train stations; upgrades aim to reduce crowding
...
Of the 1,025 subway cars the MTA plans to buy, up to 750 of them will feature a “gangway”-style design that lets riders walk the full length of the train — a layout that’s used in London, Paris and other major cities.

Transit experts have said the open style can add up to 10% more space and let riders spread evenly throughout the train. The trains will also have wider doors, seats that flip up, and poles designed to fit more hands — allowing straphangers to board more quickly.

MTA Chair Thomas Prendergast said that faster boarding could cut down on the roughly 30 seconds it takes a train to leave a station.

The cars will be equipped with Wi-Fi and USB charging ports.
...


The gangway cars have been promoted by Second Avenue Sagas; glad to see they're getting their due. It will help with crowding allowing people to spread out easier amongst the cars, not just the potential increase in space/capacity.

I really like the idea of the fold up seats; that will be a tremendous capacity help, although I worry about the durability/practicality. I assume the crew will have to do this and would pretty much be standard practice during peak/rush especially on the center cars. Some of the seats are useless anyway, especially at the ends.

Wider doors sound nice... but would the problem of people blocking the doors just increase?
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby Allan » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:51 pm

"Wider doors sound nice... but would the problem of people blocking the doors just increase?"

Of course it would. Additionally, the increasing of the door width from 50" to 58" will result in a loss of 2 2/3 feet (32 inches) of space on each side of the car - in other words - the loss of seating.

I guess the MTA prefers that everyone stand (a potential violation of ADA regulations if someone wanted to make a case of it).


"Gangways" on NYC subway cars isn't exactly a new idea - the BMT introduced that idea back in 1925 with the D-Type Triplex cars.

To say that riders can walk the full length of the train would indicate that the R211's would be a permanent set of 10 cars with 2 "A" units and 8 "B" units. Not a good choice for equipment rotation purposes especially if one car has to be taken out for major repair. At least with a 5 and 5 consist only 5 cars would have to be sidelined while the other 5 held in reserve in case of another 5 car set has to be taken out.

But that is MTA planning for you - no backwards compatibility or contingency planning for them. At least in the "old" days subway cars were made so they could link up and be fully operational with existing equipment.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:23 pm

Good points about the gangways and the cars necessarily being MU'd. Perhaps even instead of the 5 by 5, Allan, they could assemble them in 4's and 3's? I.e. two 3's, and a 4 in the middle. But then, you'd have the conductor in an odd portion of the consist. We're not talking about nearly the same number of consists, but Acela type sets must have the same issue. In any case, 5 by 5 might be the best choice; it does put the conductor in the middle.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby Head-end View » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:09 pm

Why is the whole fleet not going to be open gangway style? Why only 750 cars out of 1025?
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:02 pm

It's "up to" 750...they haven't even decided if they want them on that scale, let alone the whole order.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby BigUglyCat » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:33 pm

Ah ha! I seem to remember hearing that there was going to be 10 such cars, purely as an experiment. Sounds like someone is juicing the numbers. That wouldn't be Governor C., would it.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby andegold » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:41 pm

Last month I was in Italy and rode the Metro in Rome where they have trains with open gangways in service. The visual difference is astounding. It gives the rider a much different feel simply by removing the car end walls and doors. Cleanliness and comfort weren't much different than the older standard cars but the open gangways made them feel very different. I would love to see this in NYC.
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Re: R211

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:16 pm

Head-end View wrote:Yes, bringing back the color-coded route end-signs would be excellent. I never understood why the TA did away with them on the current generation of trains. What good is having color-coded routes if the signs on the trains don't show the color?


H-E View and Everyone:

The current signs use LEDs that are one color-red. I have thought the same thing about those signs-on IRT cars they are accurate for the
#1,2 and 3 routes. It would have been interesting to have had green signs for the #4,5 and 6 routes and purple for the #7 line.
The new signs will be updated technology that can show the proper route colors.

On a related matter Toronto added number designations to their Subway routes in the Spring of 2014 -
Note how similar they are to those used by NYC Transit in this video...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkbs4wJYhdk

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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby MACTRAXX » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:47 pm

andegold wrote:Last month I was in Italy and rode the Metro in Rome where they have trains with open gangways in service. The visual difference is astounding. It gives the rider a much different feel simply by removing the car end walls and doors. Cleanliness and comfort weren't much different than the older standard cars but the open gangways made them feel very different. I would love to see this in NYC.


AG and Everyone:

One only needs to travel to Toronto to ride their open gangway Bombardier Toronto Rocket subway cars in TTC service...
5 years ago today - July 21, 2011 - the TTC placed their first train of these new cars on the Yonge-University-Spadina Line
(now referred to as Line 1 Yonge-University - the Spadina name was dropped) replacing older car types.

I found two relevant YouTube videos showing the TR cars at introduction and in service. I added a Global TV Toronto news
report on door problems that had developed on these cars causing train delays...

Toronto Rocket Tour (before they entered service) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a-l1uDvRUc
TR First Day July 21, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLr-PW9Ftm4
TR Door Problems December 5, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUXyMKzD8ZU

These new NYCT cars with a open gangway interior will add capacity and allow more standees on board.

The only features I do not care for is the exterior side color-which is unnecessary-and the green colors (?) inside.

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Re: R211

Postby ExCon90 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:45 pm

MACTRAXX wrote:
On a related matter Toronto added number designations to their Subway routes in the Spring of 2014 -
Note how similar they are to those used by NYC Transit in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkbs4wJYhdk

MACTRAXX

I also liked the "next station" indication at individual stops, as at about 0:44; i.e., To Kipling / Next Station Bay. I can't think of another system that does that; I imagine it's a great help to people not too familiar with the system who don't happen to be sitting near a map.
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby n2cbo » Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:10 pm

I can't wait to see how long it will take for some low-life to trash the USB charging stations..... 8^(...
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Re: R211 Next Generation Subway Car w. Gangways

Postby Allan » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:33 pm

I am waiting for the fights that are going to breakout for the "last" USB that is available.
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