WTC PATH Station

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:09 am

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi ... to-license

Mr. Kennedy, here is the map that appears in my hard copy of Droege and which lead me to believe that a second tunnel from Hudson Terminal had been planned.

To further add to the conjecture, I recall reading a report, probably in The Times, that on 9/11 a PATH train was arriving at the WTC immediately after the North was hit. The train was directed to just keep moving back to NJ. This would lead me to believe that the South tunnel as depicted in the linked material was there.

But on the other hand, I recall photos of "the bathtub" after the rubble was cleared showing the Northern tunnel, but no sign of the South.
Gilbert B Norman
 
Posts: 12887
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Aurora Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Terry Kennedy » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:01 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote:https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PATH_original_plan.png#mw-jump-to-license

Mr. Kennedy, here is the map that appears in my hard copy of Droege and which lead me to believe that a second tunnel from Hudson Terminal had been planned.

There is a second tunnel - as shown in your drawing, the tunnels from Exchange Place spread out as they go under the Hudson to WTC, since both Hudson Terminal and the WTC station are loops. This drawing, created by Jeff Hakner from information provided by PATH, Bromley's 1911 Atlas, and myself, shows the relative positions of things:

Image

What I'm talking about is a second pair of tunnels, which would have entered the site next to the current tunnels E and F. The bellmouths were removed as part of WTC construction (as you can see, the WTC station is quite a bit further west than the Hudson Terminal buildings were. The only parts that are left are the 2 short sections underneath tunnel E, the access area / muck-out accessible from Tunnel F, and the stubs in the caisson north of Newport.

To further add to the conjecture, I recall reading a report, probably in The Times, that on 9/11 a PATH train was arriving at the WTC immediately after the North was hit. The train was directed to just keep moving back to NJ. This would lead me to believe that the South tunnel as depicted in the linked material was there.

But on the other hand, I recall photos of "the bathtub" after the rubble was cleared showing the Northern tunnel, but no sign of the South.

As I mentioned above, there are 2 single-track tunnels, very widely spaced, that enter the bathtub. When service was first resumed (November 23rd, 2003) the south tunnel came out into daylight in the bathtub before going under covered decking aproaching the platforms. This picture is looking southwest from the platforms toward the south tunnel (F):

Image

The north tunnel didn't see daylight as there was concrete decking on top of it by the time the temporary station re-opened.
User avatar
Terry Kennedy
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:24 pm
Location: NYC

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Gilbert B Norman » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:06 pm

Finally thanks to you, Mr. Kennedy, the mystery appears solved.

The tunnels as depicted in Droege, op cit, were built, and have remained in service, save the disruption resulting from 9/11, ever since. Therefore, it was completely plausible on 9/11, a train was directed to keep moving back to NJ.

For myself, I've ridden the H&M on several occasions in the past to the DL&W Hoboken terminal. I also had one ride long about 1958 when the cars that the PRR went and bought "over their dead bodies". That ride was into Hudson Terminal.
Gilbert B Norman
 
Posts: 12887
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:52 am
Location: Clarendon Hills, IL (BNSF Aurora Sub; MP 18.71)

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:29 am

Does anyone know if the Port Authority is beginning to finally work with carriers and have wireless cell service in the underground stations?

I've noticed in the past 3 weeks that there is now service to all carriers on the platforms at WTC.
Semi-related, there is now full service for AT&T on platform level at the Newport PATH station, but absolutely nothing for Verizon.

For a system with so few underground stations, consistent delays, and overcrowding, this seems like it should have been a no-brainer 10 years ago, for the safety aspect alone.
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!
Hawaiitiki
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Grove Street, Jersey City

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:53 pm

Each carrier has to deal with the Port Authorty to gain access to the system,and with each state's requirements.
The agreements take a long time to "hammer out" with many wanting a "piece of the pie" in the process. :P
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 4574
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:07 pm

TDowling wrote:That, and the fact that they might make permanent direct weekend service from HOB to WTC.

The HOB-WTC service (Green Line) has been suspended on weekends as of 4/9/06, with exceptions such as the Super Bowl weekend and the ongoing 33rd Street weekend work (2016).

Ken W2KB wrote:Times have changed. When in college, I had a summer engineering intern job with the PA in 1970 and 1971, and recall that the PA around that time installed an AM broadcast station translater transmitter and antenna the length of the Holland Tunnel tubes so drivers could continue to listen to their favorite AM stations in the tunnel. I think the PA police could also pre-empt it to send instructions to drivers in an emergency. Most(?) smart phones can get emergency alerts with tone and text; that alone is reason to install cell/wifi on PATH.

I recall the Holland and Lincoln tubes were wired for FM radio in February 2001.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.
User avatar
R36 Combine Coach
 
Posts: 4862
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:53 pm

Does anybody know what was seemingly initially wrong with every platform at this station? Within the past six months, every single platform was at one point placed into service then subsequently taken completely out of service. Currently, the two outermost platforms are out of service with the escalators wrapped in tarp with construction equipment on the platform, which was the same treatment the other platforms received.
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!
Hawaiitiki
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Grove Street, Jersey City

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:49 pm

TDowling wrote:That, and the fact that they might make permanent direct weekend service from HOB to WTC.


Unfortunately, this did not come to be. The recent PA announcements in PATH stations specifically note that when weekend service returns to 33rd Street this weekend, HOB-WTC weekend/late night service will be eliminated.

On another note, strange visitor today at WTC during lunch time.
Image
I'm sure it was just in storage or the marquee was mistaken but that would be an interesting service for sure if it existed.
33rd>23rd>14th>9th>Christ>Newport>Exchange>WTC>Exchange>Newport>Christ>9th>14th>23rd>33rd
Double Track, Grade Separate, and Electrify America!
Hawaiitiki
 
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Grove Street, Jersey City

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby MACTRAXX » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:21 am

HT:

PATH has operated 33rd Street-WTC trains on this routing in the past during NYC Transit strikes
in 2005 and 1980...This provided a rail connection between Midtown and Downtown Manhattan.

I recall riding these trains and remember that this routing ran through both Hudson River tunnels
via Pavonia/Newport and Exchange Place in Jersey City which seemed roundabout to me but it did
get the job done. This was a well utilized route when there was no NYC Subway service...

MACTRAXX
EXPRESS TRAIN TO NEW YORK PENN STATION-NO JAMAICA ON THIS TRAIN-PLEASE STAND CLEAR OF THE CLOSING TRAIN DOORS
MACTRAXX
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:55 am
Location: Islandia,Long Island,NY

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Terry Kennedy » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:16 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:On another note, strange visitor today at WTC during lunch time.

That has happened by accident at least once. One weekday afternoon I was on a JSQ/33rd train and was sitting in the front of the lead car (pre-PA-5) and not particularly looking out the RFW, when I happened to look up and see a LED signal. The only spots back then that had LED signals were heading down into EXP and EXP/WTC, aside from a single test signal up by 15th St. I didn't think we'd gone through Newport yet (the last stop I remember was Grove), so when I saw the second LED signal and that were heading "downhill" to EXP, I knocked on the cab door and yelled "wrong lineup" which didn't get any response until the interlocking to the west of EXP came into view.

The engineer brought the train to a stop and radioed Control, and they told her to run through WTC and back through EXP without stopping and resume normal service at Newport, and be prepared to hand over her train at 33rd. I wrote up a brief statement (basically that she hadn't had the cab door open at any time, wasn't talking to anyone, etc.) and gave it to her.

I got off at 33rd and went to work. I never saw her again, so apparently this was a career-ending move. I don't know if she'd had previous problems or not. If not, it seems a bit harsh given that all PATH lineups are from the tower, none of the subway "what you punch is what you get" (though there is a rule requiring the engineer to verify the lineup before proceeding). Also, on the overnight, things are a bit more relaxed - I've previously related the incident of the the first "round the world" overnight train getting lined for Newport instead of HOB, where the radio conversation went like this: Tower: "How far into it did you get?" Engineer: "About 3 feet." [pause] T: "Well, back it up and try again." E: "Roger".
User avatar
Terry Kennedy
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 5:24 pm
Location: NYC

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby TDowling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:
TDowling wrote:That, and the fact that they might make permanent direct weekend service from HOB to WTC.


Unfortunately, this did not come to be. The recent PA announcements in PATH stations specifically note that when weekend service returns to 33rd Street this weekend, HOB-WTC weekend/late night service will be eliminated.

On another note, strange visitor today at WTC during lunch time.
I'm sure it was just in storage or the marquee was mistaken but that would be an interesting service for sure if it existed.
33rd>23rd>14th>9th>Christ>Newport>Exchange>WTC>Exchange>Newport>Christ>9th>14th>23rd>33rd

Bummer. What's the point of building a 4 bil dollar station if it's not even used during the weekends except from newark
TDowling
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:36 pm
Location: West Point, NY

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby SemperFidelis » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:18 pm

Sadly, a woman has died in a fall from an escalator at the station.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/02/11/ ... ll-oculus/
SemperFidelis
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:49 pm
Location: Stupid Voterland

Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby TDowling » Wed May 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Looks like the 4 billion dollar station is already suffering leaks.
TDowling
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:36 pm
Location: West Point, NY

Previous

Return to NYC MTA Subway and Rail, PATH and SIRT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests