WTC PATH Station

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WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:00 am

I waited all summer hoping that I wouldn't have to write this post, but once again the Port Authority disappoints. If you're a frequent WTC PATH user, you'll notice that all of those "NEW PATH ENTRANCES OPENING THIS SUMMER!!" signs have quietly disappeared. That's probably because today is the first day of fall and NO new PATH entrances have actually opened. And for good measure, three upward escalators were broken this morning.

I realize that anything involving the WTC site is a touchy subject and folks often become defensive, but when are we, the tax payers, going to hold someone accountable for this.
•This project is YEARS late
•They chose an architect (Santiago Calatrava) who is notorious for grossly over-budget and late finishing projects
•The Hoboken platform is dangerously underbuilt.
•It is currently $3BILLION! over-budget. The amount good that could have been done with $3Billion for transportation in the New York Metro is incalculable.
    -Coulda really got Gateway funding started
    -Coulda filled in any of NJTs electrification gaps (NJCL and Monty Booty)
    -Coulda got Lackwanna Cutoff to PA
    -Coulda High-Leveled and improved dozens of stations across the region
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby JCGUY » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:56 am

I am tempted to sign up to speak at the next PA board meeting and use my entire 5 minutes of allotted time to read a list of projects that were conceived, financed, built and opened while they are still staggering through building a single replacement PATH station. Meanwhile, in Harrison the PA has now spent approximately one year partially demo'ing half of a PATH platform.

Off the top of my head:

New Giants Stadium
Barclays Center
Citi Field
New Yankee Stadium
MSG renovation
7 Train Extension
Javits Center expansion
Renovation of Walkway Over the Hudson (Poughkeepsie)
Replacement of Lake Champlain Bridge (NY-VT)
Del 1 / I--95 Interchange project and Del I-95 fifth laning.
Staten Island Expressway HOV lane extension
Third laning NYS Thruway south of Albany
NJ Turnpike Exits 6-9 widening
Garden State Parkway widening, Ocean County
Bank of America Headquarters on Bryant Park
Gehry-designed tower in lower Manhattan
Intercounty Connector (Maryland)
Q Bridge replacement (New Haven)
Woodrow Wilson Bridge replacement (D.C.)
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:54 am

I'm with you JCGUY, the whole organization needs a whitewash. The PA is a critical concept for our Bi-state economy, but its current iteration is rotten in its core.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Head-end View » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:28 pm

JCGUY, are you sure about all of those projects you listed? I believe the NY Thruway is still 2 lanes each way from Exit-16 (Harriman- NY 17) to Exit-23 (Albany, I-787). And I don't believe the construction on the Staten Island Expwy. is completed yet. But, if anyone has more up-to-date info please correct me.

Nevertheless, your points about many projects getting done in a shorter time than the WTC station are well taken. It's also worth noting that the entire original 118 mile New Jersey Turnpike was built in only two years, but that was back in 1951 when it was a lot simpler to get things done.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby JCGUY » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:58 am

The S.I.E. HOV lane extension opened a couple of weeks ago. The Thruway was widened between exits 23 and 24 IIRC, and that was finished last year.

One nice add to my list would be the Hoover Dam Bypass bridge (Pat Tillman Bridge). All the AZ and NV DOTs did there was span the Grand Canyon to build a 2 x 2 lane bypass of the Hoover Dam road (US 93). That project was a direct consequence of 9/11, because in the aftermath of 9/11 trucks were banned from the dam road, making the bypass a required piece of the road network to avoid very circuitous freight detours between Phoenix and Las Vegas. They actually lost a year on that project when high winds knocked a crane off the ledge into the canyon below. They still did the thing in approximately 10 fewer years than it will take the PA to finish WTC.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Allan » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:21 pm

Why should anything related to the WTC be of a surprise.

Everything the PA does is never on time, overbudget, and generally messed up from the start.

A bi-state agency like the PANYNJ may have been a good idea when it was first formed but it has evolved into nothing more than a political disaster. The NJ side (Christie appointees) wants it all for NJ and the NY side (Cuomo appointees) wants it all for NY. Since a lot of the operations are under the control of the Christie appointees (remember the GW Bridge snafu?) not much gets done on the NY side.

It should not be whitewashed as Hawaiitiki suggested. It should be dissolved and a better agency formed. One that is responsible to the taxpayers (the PA is not).
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby CLamb » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:40 pm

My pet peeve is that they didn't go back to using platforms on both sides of the trains as the H&M did in Hoboken, 33rd Street, and Hudson Terminal. It is great to speed up emptying and loading the cars.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Head-end View » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:00 pm

It seems to me I have seen them do that in recent times at 33rd and Hoboken.......
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby JCGUY » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:35 am

CLamb wrote:My pet peeve is that they didn't go back to using platforms on both sides of the trains as the H&M did in Hoboken, 33rd Street, and Hudson Terminal. It is great to speed up emptying and loading the cars.


The problem with that idea would be that passengers would spend less time on the platforms and staircases, thus shortening their commutes. The PA's strategy at WTC seems to be to lengthen commutes as much as possible, encouraging people to not work in or visit Manhattan, putting less pressure on P.A. facilities. That's the only reason I could think of for why the permanent -- sorry indefinite "temporary" -- configuration at WTC requires 50,000 people to walk the entire length of the WTC campus from south to north in order to access the indefinite "temporary" station, navigate narrow staircases, and then arrive on the narrow platform only to wait out the "signal failure", "Hack Bridge failure", "Dock Bridge failure" du jour in order to get to Newark, on the way to which the train will inexplicably pause an extra 2 minutes between Harrison and Newark, just long enough so that the 1,500 people on the PATH train miss their connections. Although I may be unduly cynical about this.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:24 am

JCGUY wrote:The problem with that idea would be that passengers would spend less time on the platforms and staircases, thus shortening their commutes. The PA's strategy at WTC seems to be to lengthen commutes as much as possible, encouraging people to not work in or visit Manhattan, putting less pressure on P.A. facilities. That's the only reason I could think of for why the permanent -- sorry indefinite "temporary" -- configuration at WTC requires 50,000 people to walk the entire length of the WTC campus from south to north in order to access the indefinite "temporary" station, navigate narrow staircases, and then arrive on the narrow platform only to wait out the "signal failure", "Hack Bridge failure", "Dock Bridge failure" du jour in order to get to Newark, on the way to which the train will inexplicably pause an extra 2 minutes between Harrison and Newark, just long enough so that the 1,500 people on the PATH train miss their connections. Although I may be unduly cynical about this.


As a daily rider, I'm right there with you. I travel 4 stations every morning between 7:50 and 8:15.
Hoboken > Newport > Exchange Place > WTC
The Path Schedule, which some people don't realize exists, lists the travel time as 10 minutes.
http://www.panynj.gov/path/schedules/HO ... ekday.html

The amount of times it has been 10min Hoboken Platform to WTC Platform has been 0 in the three months I've been taking the train. Almost every trip spends at least 2-3 min idling outside of one or a combo of Newport, Exchange Place, and WTC. I'm sure the PA will say the new signaling system will solve the problem. I AINT HOLDING MY BREATH.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby umtrr-author » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:36 pm

Head-end View wrote:JCGUY, are you sure about all of those projects you listed? I believe the NY Thruway is still 2 lanes each way from Exit-16 (Harriman- NY 17) to Exit-23 (Albany, I-787). And I don't believe the construction on the Staten Island Expwy. is completed yet. But, if anyone has more up-to-date info please correct me.


There's a relatively short stretch of the I-87 component south of Albany that has been widened to three lanes. I don't travel it enough to remember how far it extends and I'm too lazy to check Google Maps. But it's a few miles.

Agree that point taken on the number of projects completed. In Calatrava's defense, he has done some amazing designs, for example the City of Arts and Sciences in Valencia (which was included in the filming of "Tomorrowland"). Within budget, not so much, though.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:34 am

Just figured I'd post a short update here since we are now in November.
Long story short. NOTHING HAS CHANGED for the sad commuters (myself) that have to use this facility on a daily basis.

>New entrances and exits advertised as opening summer 2015 still not open.
>Most southerly Escalator to street level been down for at least 2 weeks now.
>Hoboken platform still a dangerous mess during morning rush hour.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but how is this ok? How long will we all put up with the bureaucratic mediocrity that is the PA?
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Allan » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:12 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:....... I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but how is this ok? How long will we all put up with the bureaucratic mediocrity that is the PA?



As long as the Lump remains your Governor and as long as the PA remains unaccountable to anyone.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Hawaiitiki » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:14 pm

The hits keep coming:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/11/0 ... y_roof.php

A leaky roof will delay the opening of the World Trade Center Transportation Hub's underground mall from 2015 to the first half of 2016.


Anybody want to grab some torches and find Santiago Calatrava's house?
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:34 am

Try the NJ governor's mansion instead,they(the PA) seem to listen to him. :P
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