Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airport

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Hawaiitiki » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:45 am

Don31 wrote:Your sketch actually shows, very roughly,


Wasn't going for architect-like accuracy

Don31 wrote:slots for the old NERL alignment. Depending upon which alternative is selected, the NERL slots would now be used by PATH


Very interesting. I guess I'm dating myself because I feel like the EWR station just opened and I know the NERL died a longg time ago. Shame that never came to fruition, bringing light rail down the McCarter or Broad Street corridors in Newark and through downtown Elizabeth could have done wonders for both of these areas. Shame not enough campaign contributors in these areas to make it happen.


NERL for those who don't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark%E2 ... _Rail_Link

Don31 wrote:assuming of course that the project ever advances


It'll happen, the lack of airport to downtown public transport is a huge black eye on the America transportation landscape. Also United is lobbying for it. And if the deals with United and the PA were under the table, whatever, sometimes that is the ONLY way things get done in this broken system.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Don31 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:18 am

Hawaiitiki wrote:
It'll happen, the lack of airport to downtown public transport is a huge black eye on the America transportation landscape. Also United is lobbying for it. And if the deals with United and the PA were under the table, whatever, sometimes that is the ONLY way things get done in this broken system.


I'm not so sure. And United isn't lobbying for it. Christie dangled PATH-EWR in front of them in exchange for United providing service to Atlantic City. That didn't last long. Besides, United is pretty much at capacity at EWR now, they have no incentive to support PATH.....
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Adirondacker » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:28 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:It'll happen, the lack of airport to downtown public transport is a huge black eye on the America transportation landscape. Also United is lobbying for it. And if the deals with United and the PA were under the table, whatever, sometimes that is the ONLY way things get done in this broken system.


It has public transportation to downtown. That's what those NJTransit and Amtrak trains do.
If getting on Airtrain isn't to your tastes it has bus service to downtown Newark and Midtown Manhattan.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Hawaiitiki » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:26 pm

I've been stuck at that airport station for over an hour in the middle of the day. That's not rapid transit and even as heavy rail, it has no reliable (e.g. every 20 min) interval between trains. I understand that it is one of America's most connected airports. What I was just saying that that's the sad thing.

Nearly every other first world country in metro areas over 2 million people have a convenient and reliable rail transit connection to the city center, whether it be rapid transit or 2x hour regional trains. Outside of a handful here, that's virtually unheard of out of the 31 metro areas in America with over 2 million people.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby BvaleShihTzu » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:04 pm

Hawaiitiki wrote:Nearly every other first world country in metro areas over 2 million people have a convenient and reliable rail transit connection to the city center, whether it be rapid transit or 2x hour regional trains. Outside of a handful here, that's virtually unheard of out of the 31 metro areas in America with over 2 million people.


Still a lot of work to be done, but quite a few more than a handful of U.S. major airports with direct, high-frequency rail transit connections from airport property to downtown
Boston
Philadelphia
Baltimore
D.C. (National)
Atlanta
Chicago -- both Midway & O'Hare
St. Louis
San Francisco
Los Angeles
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby jackintosh11 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:19 am

Philly has a similar system to EWR.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby ExCon90 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:47 pm

Similar how? SEPTA trains from Philadelphia stop at the individual terminals; passengers getting off the train have a shorter walk than from cars parked in the parking garages. On a related topic, is 30 minutes the least-frequent service of any of the cities mentioned? (I haven't checked Baltimore.)
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby CPSK » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:55 am

Now, with the Newark AirTrain being replaced, a PATH extension is a no-brainer. Integrate PATH into all new designs for the airport and you have a win-win situation. Not only is PATH much more convenient than a dedicated "AirTrain", but it will use the same equipment that the rest of the PATH system uses, eliminating all of the cost of developing new equipment for the airport. While PATH trains will require a completely different infrastructure than that currently in place for the AirTrain, it is going to work, and work well once it is complete.

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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby ExCon90 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:49 pm

BvaleShihTzu wrote:
Hawaiitiki wrote:Nearly every other first world country in metro areas over 2 million people have a convenient and reliable rail transit connection to the city center, whether it be rapid transit or 2x hour regional trains. Outside of a handful here, that's virtually unheard of out of the 31 metro areas in America with over 2 million people.


Still a lot of work to be done, but quite a few more than a handful of U.S. major airports with direct, high-frequency rail transit connections from airport property to downtown
Boston
Philadelphia
Baltimore
D.C. (National)
Atlanta
Chicago -- both Midway & O'Hare
St. Louis
San Francisco
Los Angeles

We could also include Cleveland (the first), Seattle, Portland, and Oakland (which requires an intermediate rail journey between BART and the air terminal, but conditions are similar at EWR and JFK). What really distinguishes the situation in the US versus Europe is that there are connections to lots of other cities besides the one associated with the airport. In Switzerland there are hourly expresses from Geneva Airport to St. Gallen, via Geneva, Lausanne, Fribourg, Bern, Zurich, Zurich Airport, and Winterthur. In Germany expresses run from Frankfurt Airport to cities all over Germany and elsewhere, and from Amsterdam Schiphol there are direct trains to cities all over the Low Countries. Unfortunately we don't have a basic passenger-rail network to tie into.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby F40 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:53 pm

I believe the PA can use the $1.5+ billion on other much needed projects (such as upgrading the outdated PABT). A monorail instead (connecting NWK to EWR, and which goes on to the terminals) will inherently be much less expensive to build, is best for sustainable mobility, and will virtually eliminate the pressure to raise fares from lengthening the heavy rail system (which will simply terminate at EWR station). The Park & Ride can still be built next to EWR which is a nifty idea. IN addition, they still have to figure out how to accommodate a larger size monorail at the terminals because the current AirTrain is not cutting it (this also looks like $$).
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Tom V » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:30 am

Regarding the PATH extension to EWR, the notion being bantered about here and by other "Transit advocates" that the funds to build the PATH extension to EWR would or could be transfered to another PA project like a new Bus terminal or the Hudson tunnels is FALSE!

The source of funding for the new PATH extension will be PFC's that passengers pay on tickets at Newark Airport. PFC's are Passenger Facility Charges:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_improvement_fee

These fees are fees added to airline tickets and can be tapped by airport operators for improvements to the airport, mass transit connections to Airports also qualify. EWR's Monorail Airtrain was built with PFC's, as was the extension to the NEC. In order to recoup the PFC's from people who might use the Airtrain but not be flying thus not paying a PFC, such as airport workers, they had to put those fare gates in the Rail link station to recover the PFC's from all passengers.

Basically how it works is the airport operator, Port Authority of NY and NJ, issues bonds to build a project and then covers the debt payments via the PFC's that are collected from airport travelers.

PFC's are not a source of revenue that can be reallocated to non airport facilities, and the PATH extension is not using regular Port Authority sources of revenues for it's constructions (tolls, Lease payments etc..) so building the PATH extension to EWR has no negative impact on other Transportation projects in the region *(Hudson Tunnel, PABT etc..). If anything it helps with the redevelopment of the World Trade Center by offering tenants, visitors and workers a direct connection to a major international airport thus helping to boost trade and commerce.

In the context of the PFC's the PATH extension is a worthy project.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby F40 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:54 pm

Good explanation. However, this does not change the fact that this is absolutely not the most efficient method to move people from point A to point B. The charge for the current monorail as is (being $5.50 per person) makes other methods of travel much more competitive. It is wasteful spending to bring PATH to EWR when a monorail will do the connection just as well with a lot less operating costs. Now with PFC's, the cost is not a burden to PA but passed onto everyone who buys a ticket. Folks who live in Brooklyn are not going to transfer for a 3 seat ride to EWR. The connection to PATH takes a chunk of time to make (on top of the slow subway) and is absolutely not competitive (time wise or other). They are going to get a ride via a friend/family member, or drive themselves to a nearby cheaper off airport parking facility which are more time and cost effective.

In addition, if you look at the studies of projected daily ridership for EWR, bringing a 7-10 car PATH train through (with energy seeping low voltage 3rd rail) is incredibly wasteful. To use funds from PFC's, the FAA has to approve the project and depending on what parts they approve, the project may likely require PA funds and state funds to cover the rest (as was the case with JFK AirTrain). I can hardly see a benefit to this project when you can have passengers transfer at NWK instead to a much more energy efficient monorail (take Bombardier's Innovia APM for example used in many airports in the US and around the world).
Last edited by F40 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Don31 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:58 am

F40 wrote:
In addition, if you look at the studies of projected daily ridership for EWR, bringing a 7-10 car PATH train through (with energy seeping low voltage 3rd rail) is incredibly wasteful. To use funds from PFC's, the FAA has to approve the project and depending on what parts they approve, the project may likely require PA funds and state funds to cover the rest (as was the case with JFK AirTrain).


It will absolutely require PA funding, none from the state however.....
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby Tom V » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:40 pm

Has the idea ever been floated to eliminate the NEC Rail link station, as well as the Airtrain system, and just extend the PATH to the central Terminal area of the airport? The PATH can extend South from it's current terminus and follow the NEC under route 78 and then head right over Route 9 (or under) to the Central Terminal area. A single station can be built in the area right behind the airport Marriott. From there the PATH could continue South along the airport perimeter to near Exit 13A where it could join the old CNJ to Elizabeth station.

Connections from the NEC and NJCL from the West could be made at Elizabeth, connections from the East and the RVL could be made at Newark Penn Station. Connections from the airport station to the terminals could be overhead enclosed walkways with moving sidewalks. Not that far, I've walked from the back of the parking lot near the Marriott to the Terminals.

The Airtrain system connecting the Terminals with each other as well as the parking lots and the rental car center could be replaced by airport shuttle buses operating on their own dedicated roadway.

The elimination of the Airport Rail link station will help speed up trips for regular commuters who have seen additional stops, EWR and Secaucus jct, add additional time to their commutes over the years.
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Re: Port Authority advancing PATH extension to Newark Airpor

Postby gprimr1 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:13 am

Eliminating Newark Airport, extending Path to the terminal, and keeping the station at Newark makes perfect sense. Imagine the seats on NEC trains that could be freed up, same for NJT.
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