WTC PATH Station

Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby lstone19 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:21 pm

andrewjw wrote:Scroll up to check out a good diagram posted by Terry Kennedy. The new station is a good bit west, to make space for the Oculus. The new station is pretty much directly underneath the Twin Towers memorial. The new escalator wall would be the escalators from westward passageway to Brookfield Place (fka World Financial Center).


I saw Terry's post but I thought that's the pre-2001 alignment. The platform arrangement does not match what Wikipedia (for what that's worth) says is today's platform arrangement. And I'm really asking about the track arrangement, not what is above it.

Giving this more thought, the pre-2001 station (at track level) was deeper than it might otherwise had to have been since it needed to go under the original tracks to Hudson Terminal. Was the 2003 temporary terminal at that same level or did they build it higher since there was no longer the need to go under the Hudson Terminal approach tracks? And is today's in essentially the same location? As I said, I was only in the temporary station once and that was in 2004. I always assumed it had the same track and platform arrangement as the pre-2001 station but perhaps not. And I also see that the temporary station accommodated 8-car trains while today's permanent station is built for 10-car trains. That leads me to assume that the temporary station was built somewhat inside the track radius planned for the permanent station. But other than Terry's diagram and similar I've found elsewhere (which I believe is all pre-2001), I've seen nothing showing where today's tracks are.

The details of the 2004 trip are hazy but I recall (perhaps incorrectly) a temporary indoor walkway (I assumed below grade but perhaps not) from the E WTC station to the PATH station and then an escalator descent (PATH hill), similar to pre-2001, facing west as you descended (so trains moving left to right at the bottom - or am I completely misremembering the direction that bank of escalators faced?).
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Terry Kennedy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:26 pm

lstone19 wrote:I saw Terry's post but I thought that's the pre-2001 alignment. The platform arrangement does not match what Wikipedia (for what that's worth) says is today's platform arrangement. And I'm really asking about the track arrangement, not what is above it.

The purpose of that illustration was to show the original Hudson Terminal and 1972-2001 terminal in relation to the buildings pre-9/11. However...
Giving this more thought, the pre-2001 station (at track level) was deeper than it might otherwise had to have been since it needed to go under the original tracks to Hudson Terminal. Was the 2003 temporary terminal at that same level or did they build it higher since there was no longer the need to go under the Hudson Terminal approach tracks?

The 1972-2001 station was on the bottom of the bathtub. It pretty much had to be there - as you mention, it needed to be under the original tracks. If it was at a higher elevation it would have needed to be further east (like Hudson Terminal) to avoid unacceptable grade changes. Don't forget that the IRT Cortlandt Street station (#1 train) is there, too. The IRT tracks were in the ceiling between the 2 sections of of the main escalator bank from the PATH mezzanine up to the WTC concourse level (somewhat below street level). You can see the IRT tracks crossing the escalator bank in this picture of the temporary station (taken with a photo permit):

Image

The decision to rebuild the post-2001 station in exactly the same configuration was for expediency - they already had the design plans which only needed some modifiation, rather than designing a whole new station. Further, some of the parts of the pre-9/11 station were incorporated into the "temporary" station - a few of the columns at the north end of the platforms were original, as was some of the structure between the platforms and the north portal. The Track 6 expansion proposal was removed because it would have yielded a shorter platform and protruded into the working construction area of the bathtub.
And is today's in essentially the same location? As I said, I was only in the temporary station once and that was in 2004. I always assumed it had the same track and platform arrangement as the pre-2001 station but perhaps not. And I also see that the temporary station accommodated 8-car trains while today's permanent station is built for 10-car trains. That leads me to assume that the temporary station was built somewhat inside the track radius planned for the permanent station. But other than Terry's diagram and similar I've found elsewhere (which I believe is all pre-2001), I've seen nothing showing where today's tracks are.

I believe the tracks in the newer, permanent station are in the same location as the ones in the temporary station. I really don't believe that the Port Authority could have done anything more than re-do the platforms and replace steps with escalators in the time available and with a simple plywood wall between that work and the active temporary platforms. Since passengers were herded to the north end of the remaining temporary platforms and out ot Vesey / Greenwich Streets, it was impossible to tell what was going on above.
The details of the 2004 trip are hazy but I recall (perhaps incorrectly) a temporary indoor walkway (I assumed below grade but perhaps not) from the E WTC station to the PATH station and then an escalator descent (PATH hill), similar to pre-2001, facing west as you descended (so trains moving left to right at the bottom - or am I completely misremembering the direction that bank of escalators faced?).

That is correct. You come out of the south end of the E station, through the doors (the surviving original doors and wall to your right were boarded up pending a decision which was made to incorprate them into the final station.

Some landmarks pre-9/11, along the route you describe taking - before the doors out of the E, newsstand recessed on the left. Through the doors, [different] recessed newsstand to your left, Kelly Photo in front of you. Turn right and walk down the hallway past a hallway going to your left, with a Torneau watch store on the corner. Keep walking and come out in the large open square with the PATH escalator bank (top of the "hill" you refer to). Take the long escalator down to an intermediate level, walk a few feet and take the next set of shorter escalators down to the PATH mezzanine. Look up to see the IRT tracks above you as you're on that last bit. On the PATH mezzanine, Hudson News to your left (south), Commuter's Cafe to your right (north). Track 1 is underneath you, closest to the escalators. Track 5 is all the way across the mezzanine. Looking north past Commuter's Cafe, the mezzanine opens up a bit and you see silver doors, blocked off. Those were emergency exits to/from the parking garage, closed since the 1993 bombing.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby lstone19 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Terry Kennedy wrote:I believe the tracks in the newer, permanent station are in the same location as the ones in the temporary station. I really don't believe that the Port Authority could have done anything more than re-do the platforms and replace steps with escalators in the time available and with a simple plywood wall between that work and the active temporary platforms. Since passengers were herded to the north end of the remaining temporary platforms and out ot Vesey / Greenwich Streets, it was impossible to tell what was going on above.


Terry, thanks for the detailed response. But they must have done some track moving (maybe just Track 1) as I believe pre-2001 and the temporary station was (west to east):
Trk5 - Platform - Trk4 - Trk3 - Platform - Trk2 - Trk1 - Platform
and from what I've seen plus what the Wikepedia page about the station, it's now:
PlatformD - Trk5 - PlatformC - Trk4 - Trk3 - PlatformB - Trk2 - PlatformA - Trk1

So I'm assuming as part of the work to build the permanent station, Track 1 was moved into the space where the side platform was with new Platform A where Track 1 used to be. The rest would seem to be able to be unchanged except for the addition of Platform D to the left of Track 5.

I clearly need to go back and look around at the whole new complex when I'm not in a hurry.
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Re: WTC PATH Station

Postby Head-end View » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:15 pm

I've been using the WTC PATH Terminal about four times a year since the 1980's. When it reopened after 9/11, the tracks and platforms were only semi-enclosed for a few years. It always seemed to me, and still does, that the tracks and platforms are in exactly the same location and configuration as they were pre-9/11. The platforms may have been lengthened, but I think the entire new terminal was built around the existing track and platforms. I don't recall ever noticing any changes to that during the reconstruction.
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