M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:13 am

In any case, LIRR gets the first 92; after that, I'm not sure how the distribution will go. So you'll still be looking at M-3a's on the Hudson and Harlem for the near future.

Since this is a shared fleet order, it will be interesting to see if and how they are deployed and "shared". Foamer questions that come to mind are branding; will they be blue? Yellow? Will they be generically labeled MTA or will they actually be assigned to a railroad and only shared as necessary? I imagine because of logistics there won't be much if any back and forth.

Operationally, how are they going to handle the different signal systems? And finally, I guess they will be equipped with the same DC shoes that M8's have.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:18 am

shared order does not mean the feel will be shared
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:33 am

That's what I assumed; in practice, you'd only see cars moved in some type of emergency. But they are inter-operable on either system, right?
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:35 am

not unless LIRR gets a same ACSES system, Radio's etc etc , the M-7 was shared order so were M-3 and M-1 but non were ever moved other than a few test trains.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:41 am

Dutch, M8's are the only fleet I know that can operate on all lines, as they have the over/under capable DC shoes. The way I've been reading the M9 is that they will also have that setup (sans pantographs, of course). The M9a is a tack-on order at the end, rather than specific to MNRR as it has been in the past. So to me, that means the "innards" are the same. The M-1 through M-7 fleet had "A" variants specific to MNRR; yes, same car type, but different internal systems for signals and power.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:10 am

believe me the M-9's MN get, are specific build for MN.

and M-8's are build with Amtrak trackage in mind, not LIRR, from Harold to NYP the LIRR runs on Amtrak and so eventually will M-8 (maybe)
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Fan Railer » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:17 pm

Tentative delivery schedule (has since been delayed, iirc)
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:25 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:believe me the M-9's MN get, are specific build for MN.

and M-8's are build with Amtrak trackage in mind, not LIRR, from Harold to NYP the LIRR runs on Amtrak and so eventually will M-8 (maybe)
.


I'm not asking this right. I must be following the Facebook group too much.

Will the M9's have dual capable DC shoes? Whether or not MNRR or LIRR specific?
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:41 pm

As far as I can see in specifications, they will NOT get dual purpose third rail shoes.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:05 pm

So why the single designation? And a separate designation for LIRR for a second order M9-A. Doesn't make any sense.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby runningwithscalpels » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:53 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:As far as I can see in specifications, they will NOT get dual purpose third rail shoes.


Seems silly that going forward they wouldn't strive for uniformity with flippable shoes. Yeah the M7's would keep the MNR shoes, but you'd think they'd get a volume discount with M8s and M9's (and whatever replaces the P32's) using the same third rail shoes.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:19 pm

There is no such thing as flippable shoe, the M-8 shoe is steady shoe sprung to flex up or down with a wear surface on top and bottom.
The M-9's will never be interchanged between LIRR and MN so why go through expenses of putting something on that you never will use ??
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby nomis » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:33 am

Because the cost of buying two boatloads of over-under shoes (and hardware) vs. a boatload of under running shoes (and hardware) and another boatload of over running shoes (and hardware) can be cheaper when you do t have to pay a second tooling charge that will get amortized across the units.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:41 am

If you put two sided shoes on these cars, yet it never gets used, you would throw away half a shoe every 6 weeks. multiply by 8 shoes per pair and you see its ludicrous to use two sided shoes.
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Re: M9 Cars Design Delivery and Acceptance

Postby Jeff Smith » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:18 am

Thinking VERY long-term, if MNRR ever gets to it, if you ran Hudson branch trains into Penn (part of the PSAS plan, not currently funded) you might want through running trains. That would require over/under. Or, say you have fleet issues on either side of the sound due to an incident such as Sandy, flat-spotting (remember when the 7a's first came out?), etc., it would be nice to be able to rotate in and out as needed.
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