MTA board approves fare hikes

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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GreatOne2k7
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by GreatOne2k7 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:56 am

Steamboat Willie wrote:You all seem to forget, the RR has some kind of monopoly here. By that, I mean the people who commute into NYC from the outer terminals such as Poughkeepsie, New Haven, Southeast that sees strong ridership have no other alternative. And people will continue to commute into NYC because that's where all the jobs are (most of.) And they will have a better standard of living further away from the city with the money they make. Riding the train is cheaper and safer. Anyone who rides the NH line who complains should be shown the I-95 just as a reminder they can sit in rush hour traffic for miles on end sharing the road with half awake truck drivers. And you can remind people up the line on the H&H about the abundant amount of deer on the Taconic Parkway and you tell me if it's safer.

These fare hikes are nothing different than others in the past. Knee jerk reaction is to outcry and complain. It's part of life, just like my taxes keep going up.


If fares go up too much some people may even use Amtrak (New Haven, Hudson riders).

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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by DutchRailnut » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:20 am

the price for Amtrak is double that of MNCR/CDOT so Im not to worried about the commuters flocking to them.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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milkyoreo27
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by milkyoreo27 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:02 pm

Not exactly. Once, I was traveling with a buddy of mine who was 14. We were going from New Rochelle (note, he was eligible for a child ticket on Amtrak). Metro North was only about a dollar or two more expensive.

Question - if Rell doesn't approve of fare increases in Connecticut, does that mean only the services in CT or tickets themselves. For an example, will the MetroCard prices in CT machines change?

DutchRailnut
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by DutchRailnut » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:04 pm

only service in CT, Metro card is a NY service and price went up even if purchased in Ct.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by Jeff Smith » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:04 pm

CT fares will rise as soon as the first M8 set hits revenue service, and they hold the requisite public hearings. Keep in mind this is Rell's last year as guv.
Next stop, Willoughby
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Ridgefielder
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by Ridgefielder » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:44 am

Jeff Smith wrote:CT fares will rise as soon as the first M8 set hits revenue service, and they hold the requisite public hearings. Keep in mind this is Rell's last year as guv.

Remember too, though, that both major party gubernatorial candidates in Connecticut this year are from Fairfield County- Malloy (D) is from Stamford, and Foley (R) is a Greenwich resident. Either one of them is going to be more familiar with the issues of New Haven Line commuters than Rell (from Brookfield) or Rowland (from Waterbury).

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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by L'mont » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:48 pm

Ya know......if you adjust the cost of a subway ride from 1935, it would be about $1.75 today. So........it is more expensive now to ride than it was then. Yet, there are fewer people required to operate trains due to automation and the same holds true for ticketing and such. The system should cost less. What are we paying for as riders? What is that extra 25% buying us? Seems like waste is what it buys us........

metrony
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by metrony » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:19 pm

L'mont wrote:Ya know......if you adjust the cost of a subway ride from 1935, it would be about $1.75 today. So........it is more expensive now to ride than it was then. Yet, there are fewer people required to operate trains due to automation and the same holds true for ticketing and such. The system should cost less. What are we paying for as riders? What is that extra 25% buying us? Seems like waste is what it buys us........


To be honest NYC people get a bargain (I really don't get why they complain about the prices). The subway/bus system is dirt cheap. Even with the unlimited going to $104, it's still unlimited. Base fare is still $2.25 (Single ride - people actually still use that??? going to $2.50) There is no peak fares, no zone travel, free subway to bus, bus to subway transfer. Plus with the unlimited it's cheaper to ride the subway now (still) than it was back with tokens.

If anything the suburbs get raped. Paying the payroll tax, same tax base as the city, parking fees etc. Not many areas in the suburbs have even a fraction of what the city gets (Orange and Rockland counties especially). I think the MTA should be broken up into sections. NYC, Long Island, Hudson Valley. The tax money the MTA collects in the Hudson Valley should go ONLY to Metro-North not to a general fund going towards the city and LIRR. The city supports their system. Long Island supports the LIRR.

You also have to remember the system was completely rundown in the 70s and 80s. It was literally falling apart. It happened due to years of neglect and the refusal to raise the subway fare by even a few cents. MTA had to spend billions of dollars just to bring the system to standard. Public transportation is vital especially in our area, but Albany and the US government still think railroads are too 1800s. It's still all about cars and planes.
Last edited by metrony on Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:20 pm

Litigation insurance, lawyers, regulatory compliance, safety equipment, EPA mandates, studies, union wages, and, to be even handed, large executive compensation packages.
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:38 pm

What large executive packages, the people at top make far below what people in private industry make for comparable jobs.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Spuyten Duyvil
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by Spuyten Duyvil » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:27 pm

metrony wrote:
L'mont wrote:Ya know......if you adjust the cost of a subway ride from 1935, it would be about $1.75 today. So........it is more expensive now to ride than it was then. Yet, there are fewer people required to operate trains due to automation and the same holds true for ticketing and such. The system should cost less. What are we paying for as riders? What is that extra 25% buying us? Seems like waste is what it buys us........


To be honest NYC people get a bargain (I really don't get why they complain about the prices). The subway/bus system is dirt cheap. Even with the unlimited going to $104, it's still unlimited. Base fare is still $2.25 (Single ride - people actually still use that??? going to $2.50) There is no peak fares, no zone travel, free subway to bus, bus to subway transfer. Plus with the unlimited it's cheaper to ride the subway now (still) than it was back with tokens.

If anything the suburbs get raped. Paying the payroll tax, same tax base as the city, parking fees etc. Not many areas in the suburbs have even a fraction of what the city gets (Orange and Rockland counties especially). I think the MTA should be broken up into sections. NYC, Long Island, Hudson Valley. The tax money the MTA collects in the Hudson Valley should go ONLY to Metro-North not to a general fund going towards the city and LIRR. The city supports their system. Long Island supports the LIRR.

You also have to remember the system was completely rundown in the 70s and 80s. It was literally falling apart. It happened due to years of neglect and the refusal to raise the subway fare by even a few cents. MTA had to spend billions of dollars just to bring the system to standard. Public transportation is vital especially in our area, but Albany and the US government still think railroads are too 1800s. It's still all about cars and planes.


From the most recent farebox recovery/ratio numbers that I can find, it appears that the assumption that Metro North riders contribute a greater share of relative operating costs than New York City transit riders is flat-out wrong.

http://www.mta.info/mta/ind-finance/mon ... ratios.htm
http://www.mta.info/mta/ind-finance/mon ... ratios.htm

The commuter rail systems are such small potatoes compared to what the city subway and bus systems move around on a daily basis. The city and region as we know it simply couldn't exist without those 7.5 million daily weekday rides it provides, so to some degree complaints about fairness are almost irrelevant.

metrony
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by metrony » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:25 pm

Spuyten Duyvil wrote:
metrony wrote:
L'mont wrote:Ya know......if you adjust the cost of a subway ride from 1935, it would be about $1.75 today. So........it is more expensive now to ride than it was then. Yet, there are fewer people required to operate trains due to automation and the same holds true for ticketing and such. The system should cost less. What are we paying for as riders? What is that extra 25% buying us? Seems like waste is what it buys us........


To be honest NYC people get a bargain (I really don't get why they complain about the prices). The subway/bus system is dirt cheap. Even with the unlimited going to $104, it's still unlimited. Base fare is still $2.25 (Single ride - people actually still use that??? going to $2.50) There is no peak fares, no zone travel, free subway to bus, bus to subway transfer. Plus with the unlimited it's cheaper to ride the subway now (still) than it was back with tokens.

If anything the suburbs get raped. Paying the payroll tax, same tax base as the city, parking fees etc. Not many areas in the suburbs have even a fraction of what the city gets (Orange and Rockland counties especially). I think the MTA should be broken up into sections. NYC, Long Island, Hudson Valley. The tax money the MTA collects in the Hudson Valley should go ONLY to Metro-North not to a general fund going towards the city and LIRR. The city supports their system. Long Island supports the LIRR.

You also have to remember the system was completely rundown in the 70s and 80s. It was literally falling apart. It happened due to years of neglect and the refusal to raise the subway fare by even a few cents. MTA had to spend billions of dollars just to bring the system to standard. Public transportation is vital especially in our area, but Albany and the US government still think railroads are too 1800s. It's still all about cars and planes.


From the most recent farebox recovery/ratio numbers that I can find, it appears that the assumption that Metro North riders contribute a greater share of relative operating costs than New York City transit riders is flat-out wrong.

http://www.mta.info/mta/ind-finance/mon ... ratios.htm
http://www.mta.info/mta/ind-finance/mon ... ratios.htm

The commuter rail systems are such small potatoes compared to what the city subway and bus systems move around on a daily basis. The city and region as we know it simply couldn't exist without those 7.5 million daily weekday rides it provides, so to some degree complaints about fairness are almost irrelevant.



Looking at Orange and Rockland counties why should those residents be paying the same exact amount of MTA taxes as NYC does? The schedule is pathetic, too many locals not enough expresses etc. Metro-North has definitely improved their WoH greatly within the last decade, but obviously it's never going to have the service levels of NYC. NYC has subways, buses, express buses. Almost whatever you go in the city there is some sort of MTA.

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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by DutchRailnut » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:11 am

Why do I have to pay taxes for militairy, farm subsidy etc etc, I do not like militairy and don't eat my vegtables , yet their included in my taxes.
My taxes pay for roads , yet I only use local once so why do I have to pay for interstate system ???
People in Rockland and Orange are far fewer per square mile and the benefits of transportation to few will help the community as a whole.
snow removal for example is much better funded in NY with many tax payers vs Orange Rockland where money from other places has to pay for snow removal on local roads.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

metrony
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by metrony » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:48 am

DutchRailnut wrote:Why do I have to pay taxes for militairy, farm subsidy etc etc, I do not like militairy and don't eat my vegtables , yet their included in my taxes.
My taxes pay for roads , yet I only use local once so why do I have to pay for interstate system ???
People in Rockland and Orange are far fewer per square mile and the benefits of transportation to few will help the community as a whole.
snow removal for example is much better funded in NY with many tax payers vs Orange Rockland where money from other places has to pay for snow removal on local roads.


I get what you're saying, but for crying out loud even the Wassaic branch has better service intervals (At least the Pascack Valley doesn't have huge gaps like the Port Jervis does). If Rockland & Orange had a one seat ride to Penn or GCT and had regular service intervals I would understand.

L'mont
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Re: MTA board approves fare hikes

Post by L'mont » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:29 am

DutchRailnut wrote:What large executive packages, the people at top make far below what people in private industry make for comparable jobs.


That's because private industry MAKES MONEY. The MTA just loses it.

On that note, I am a big supporter of public transit. HUGE. I love the subway and the railroad. I use the bus as well and I feel that the men and women on the ground work hard to move upwards of 75 million people every year.

However, we're still not addressing the fact that the system costs more today (adjusted for inflation) than it did at the early part of the 20th century. Of course certain things, such as safety and compliance issues have become more expensive, but how about the places where money is saved. Many jobs have been eliminated or downsized due to automation and other such streamlining. Subway capacity is LESS than decades ago, as far as route miles.

The bottom line is, no one is making TOO much money (Pensions might be poorly funded and structured). Even Jay Walder, who makes $450,000 can't stand with others who run companies of similar size. The problems isn't compensation, it's the excessive bureaucracy. Not enough money makes it back to service to the public.

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