Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, Jeff Smith

Re: Extensions

Postby Lackawanna484 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:57 am

metroduff wrote:Regarding the Hudson Line service, if Metro-North took it over, it would most likely simply operate the Amtrak equipment into Penn, in the event that Amtrak was no longer the operator.

Regarding the impact of commuter service on communities which don't have it, it is the local governments who have the power and responsibility to regulate growth in the best interests of their residents. Their failure to do so is nothing more than that.

Blaming more efficient transportation for sprawl is like blaming the Atkins diet for increased obesity -- it's a failure of the will of the people most responsible.


----------------

I'd doubt MetroNorth would operate into Penn Station. That would require additional staffing, tickets, mechanical support etc in another location. Although top leadership would like more interface between LIRR and MN, it's highly unlikely that MN crafts would willingly accept LIRR people working on MN equipment if it came to that.

My bet is, in the unlikely case ATK gives up the Empire Route and Mn takes it over, the service would operate into GCT, where it belongs, IMHO. I'd like to see a few Boston Acelas start/finish here, too.
Lackawanna484
 

Postby LI Loco » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:46 pm

Nester wrote:
Otto Vondrak wrote:You can't have additional service in Penn Station. 1) equipment is not compatible to enter Penn Station complex 2) not enough room in Penn for the service as it stands now.


I never said that it was simply a management decision to add service to Penn. IIRC, the studies acknowledged this and implementation was supposed to happen *after* the LIRR started using GCT, which would free up some slots on 13-21 at NYP.

Nester


The current access from the West Side line restricts Amtrak trains to tracks 1 - 7. I'm hard-pressed to see how Metro-North trains would be able to access tracks 13-21.
LI Loco
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:41 pm

Tom Curtin

Postby Tom Curtin » Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:17 am

I really can't picture MNR taking over NY-Albany service from Amtrak. The Empire Corridor is a big Amtrak operation and quite clearly "intercity" in nature. Yeah, I know various kinds of talk have been around on this matter going back into MNR's early years in the mid 80s.

What I can picture is Hudson service extending north making some selection of local stops as far as Tivoli (I pick Tivoli because I understand it is the last stop in Dutchess County and MTA's [MNR's parent] statutory authority ends there)
Tom Curtin
 
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:25 am

Postby Lackawanna484 » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:42 pm

The operational issues of expanding north to Tivoli are relatively simple, compared to some other matters.

The freight volume is the same at po'keep and Tivoli. Getting a CSX signoff on the expansion would be pretty simple, I'd guess, esp if NY state offered to buy the trackage and convert it to the same status as Po'keep south

Since Amtrak doesn't serve Hyde Park or Tivoli, I don't think there is even a need to get their OK or that of their unions. Getting a buy-in from town authorities could be ferocious, though...
Lackawanna484
 

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby nomis » Fri May 12, 2017 9:41 am

Mod Note: Moved the new 2017 posts to the more appropriate PSAS thread. And until the Harlem or Hudson wants to extend out cardinal northward, this thread too shall sit dormant and shall trailblaze our foamer ideas of extending service into non-MTA counties.
Moderator: Metro-North (with CDOT), Photography & Video

Avatar: An overnight trip on Girard Ave. stumbles upon 6 PCC's and an LRV stuck within two blocks.
User avatar
nomis
 
Posts: 2022
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: MRS 43 (was QA 9 & QB 2)

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby AMTK822401 » Wed May 31, 2017 11:54 pm

I've seen an online newspaper article that gives a few reasons why Metro North should be extended from Poughkeepsie. One of the oft repeated ones has to do with a fear of running out of parking at POU. At least from this perspective then there is no way service can be expanded north. Both Rhinecliff and Hudson are pretty much at capacity with the current Amtrak services and while Rensselaer isn't there is a reason why commuter services to Albany ended when (or slightly before) the MTA came around........
AMTK822401
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:17 pm

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:35 am

In the early years of the PC Metro Region,the Hudson Line Divsion Post was near Rensselaer at the bridge that carried B&A freights to Selkirk.
Not long after the 1st attempt of the Lake Shore was discontinued,the Port Road branch was torn out.
The "purchase of service" agreement with NY State ended commuter service at Poughkeepsie on the Hudson Line,Dover Plains on the Harlem Line.
At a point of time before CR was created,the Division Post was moved to CP75,with the rest of the line transferred to the NE Region.
Also at that time,the Division Post on the Harlem Line moved from near Chatham to MP 77,just north of Dover Plains(aka BLS Brook by CR)
The remains of the Harlem Line north to Wassaic(Millerton) were turned over to the NE Region.
Backshophoss
 
Posts: 4574
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby Ridgefielder » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:41 am

AMTK822401 wrote:I've seen an online newspaper article that gives a few reasons why Metro North should be extended from Poughkeepsie. One of the oft repeated ones has to do with a fear of running out of parking at POU. At least from this perspective then there is no way service can be expanded north. Both Rhinecliff and Hudson are pretty much at capacity with the current Amtrak services and while Rensselaer isn't there is a reason why commuter services to Albany ended when (or slightly before) the MTA came around........

Would you necessarily have to run all the way to Rhinecliff to avoid a parking problem at POU? Seems like it would make more sense to poke a couple of trips north to Hyde Park or Staatsburg instead.
Ridgefielder
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby Patrick A. » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:00 pm

Would have to imagine anyone north of POU is in 'Super Commuter' territory and would gravitate more towards Amtrak (express service) versus an MNCR type service making local or near local stops from POU down to Croton Harmon. RHI-NYP on Amtrak varies from 1:34-1:50. MNCR from POU to GCT 1:33-1:47 and is ~20 miles shorter. even if you are charitable and assume a 60 mph average speed the MNCR time would be 1:54-2:10.

The scenario where one would choose this extension service would be if one worked on the East Side in Manhattan and got a meaningful enough of a price differential versus Amtrak (don't know the fare breakdowns). The reduced travel time between work and GCT could be meaningful enough to offset some of the added en-route time, but would it be enough to warrant service? Methinks the current service levels provided by Amtrak are more than adequate to cover that catchment area.
I have lived to ride on the M8.

Complete Constant Tension on the New Haven Line ETC: Mid-2018
Patrick A.
 
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Extending service on the Harlem and Hudson lines

Postby Rockingham Racer » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:41 pm

There was a plan to terminate at Staatsburg about 10 years ago. Strong NIMBYism put a halt to that in short order. I'm hard pressed to think that there'd be any less opposition to the plan nowadays.
User avatar
Rockingham Racer
 
Posts: 2891
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:25 pm

Previous

Return to MTA Metro-North Railroad and CtDOT Passenger Rail

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests