Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby shadyjay » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:21 pm

Fares don't seem that unreasonable to me.

What will be interesting to see is whether the schedule will have a disclaimer regarding the NB Amtrak shuttles. Last we heard they were being retained, but any NB shuttle has to wait for its NEC counterpart in NHV to arrive to make connections. Now let's say the train is 1 hour late. And Joe commuter is looking to board train 4## in Berlin to reach Hartford or Springfield. He's gonna be pretty pissed to find out his train is an hour late because of something that happened off the radar of Hartford Line service.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby Train322 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:40 pm

Fares are slightly above Metro North RR fares. Also MN uses M8's which are new.
Perhaps they could reduce some by 3 to 5%.

Also, Metro North gives a 15% discount to ten trip rides. This is only 10%.
They should just base it on 0.20/mile instead.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:08 pm

your comparing apples and oranges, mn is not connecticut commuter rail.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby Ridgefielder » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:11 pm

Dutch has a point. How do these fares compare to SLE?
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby shadyjay » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:56 pm

Using NHV-OSB on SLE and NHV-HFD on the Hartford Line as reference:

NHV-OSB
rail distance: 33 miles+/-
one-way fare (existing): $7.25

NHV-HFD:
rail distance: 37 miles+/-
one-way fare (proposed): $8.00
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby Train322 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:09 pm

Probably close. The SLE fare is just a small amount lower than proposed Hartford line.
Generally, SLE is in a wealthier area and MN is in a wealthier area also.

Still - MN probably has a higher cost structure but they do have the advantage of a premium fare into Manhattan.

This new line will have a much better fare-box operating ratio than SLE but not nearly MN's New Haven line which in 2014 was in the 69% range while SLE was which is about 7%.

I still think Hartford line will be in the 30-50% range. I think the target was in the 20's. (not sure).






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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby bdawe » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:50 pm

Train322 wrote: while SLE was which is about 7%.


The SLE only collects 7% of it's expenses in fares?

why even bother with the trouble of having fares?
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby sullysullinburg » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:45 am

7%? Really? Some big changes might be needed to this line...
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby eastwind » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:14 pm

Will there be separate peak and non-peak fares similar to Metro-North?
Will there be through ticketing to points beyond New Haven?
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby sullysullinburg » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:15 pm

From what I’ve seen, neither of these things will happen. It is open for public comment right now so there may be changes coming.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby BandA » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:59 pm

The Springfield Line is 60.5 Miles from New Haven (according to Amtrak). $12.75/60.5 = 21¢/mile, which I believe is about the same as the New Haven Line. MA is not contributing, so the segment north of the border shouldn't be subsidized by CT, but since it is only about 3 miles it doesn't matter much.

You can't drive your car for 21¢ a mile. Figure 10¢ a mile for gas + 10¢ a mile for oil changes + 0.8¢ a mile for tires + 5¢ a mile for maintenance. That's not even counting insurance or capital costs. Now, for ConnDOT to get to 100% farebox recovery would probably be more than driving.
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Re: Hartford Line CtDOT New Haven-Springfield - NHHS

Postby BenH » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:15 pm

The IRS's 2017 Standard Mileage rate for operating a vehicle is $0.535/mile. (note that this rate does not include tolls or parking, if any)
The standard mileage rate for business is based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile.
REF: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/2017-standard-mileage-rates-for-business-and-medical-and-moving-announced

Using the current IRS rate, the average cost to drive a personal vehicle between Springfield and New Haven is about $32 -- which is about 3 times higher than the proposed price of a full fare adult ticket on the CTrail Hartford Line.

Also, please see this document which breaks out the proposed CTrail Hartford Line fares at the "per mile" level.
http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/Hartford_Line_Title_VI_Safe_Analysis_FINAL_10202017.pdf
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:35 am

Peak fares only apply to travel to/from Manhattan at certain times, so why on earth would CDOT charge peak fares for Springfield to New Haven? I would guess they would work out a uni-Ticket thing like you can do with SLE tickets if you are continuing past New Haven, particularly since they are peddling that this will have MN connections (not Amtrak Regional connections unless it's a remaining Amtrak shuttle - contrary to certain people's opinions around here) - but only the New Haven to 125/GCT portion would be subject to peak fare rules.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby deathtopumpkins » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:51 am

If you actually look at the proposed fares (http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/CTrail_Ha ... 192017.pdf) you'll see that they will be doing UniRail ticketing with both SLE and MN, but there is no discount.

No peak fares though.
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Re: Springfield Line Upgrade in CT

Postby CVRA7 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:27 am

There was a time when you could go to a station - at least the larger stations - and purchase a ticket for a journey over a number of different railroads - this was called an interline ticket, and this was done way back before computer access. One would think that in the age of computers, interline ticketing would be an easy thing to administer. Amtrak does interline ticketing to a slight degree, much of it with selected bus connections. One rare rail exception was over N J Transit from Philadelphia over the ex PSRL to Atlantic City. Also into Toronto on Via Rail Canada. There seems to be no will to do it in Connecticut between the various rail carriers, except Amtrak could sell Shore Line East - possibly because Amtrak operated that service, although Amtrak agents could not issue tickets on most other Amtrak-operated commuter carriers, such as when they operated MBTA Commuter Rail in the Boston area. During my decades in ticketing I heard a lot of complaints from Amtrak passengers not being able to purchase tickets for connecting Metro-North service from New Haven. I don't know how ticketing will be handled for this new CT Rail Hartford line service outside of seeing announcements for ticket vending machines being located at each station plus cash fares on the train.
I looked at the link to proposed Hartford Line fares but couldn't see any reference to any "Uniticket" offering.
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