Shore Line East or Metro North to Rhode Island Green Airport

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, Jeff Smith

Shore Line East or Metro North to Rhode Island Green Airport

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:36 pm

Does anyone know why it does not make sense for Metronorth extend on the Northeast Corridor to Rhode Island, removing Amtrak from being responsible for Shoreline east and improving the service?

I realize this is not what MetroNorth was created for, but I would imagine that the subsidies that are presently supporting Amtrak could be given to MN and the railroad would probably run better.
SystemsConsciousness
 

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:18 am

SLE operates commuter service from Stamford east to New London. There has been talk about extending SLE (not MNRR) to Providence in cooperation with RI, but that's a ways off. MNRR is a NYS agency; I doubt they'd be interested.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7444
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:46 am

Dude, are you just sitting around thinking of impossible/improbable service extensions? Every one of your posts on this board so far has been one fantasy after another. If you want to have an intelligent conversation about possible service extensions, you might want to do some research first.

Metro-North operates trains for CDOT on a contract basis. Shore Line East provides service for CDOT from New Haven to New London (in theory). Any extension to Rhode Island would be a partnership between CDOT and RIDOT and would have nothing to do with Metro-North.

-otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20144
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:45 am

Otto Vondrak wrote:Dude, are you just sitting around thinking of impossible/improbable service extensions? Every one of your posts on this board so far has been one fantasy after another. If you want to have an intelligent conversation about possible service extensions, you might want to do some research first.

Metro-North operates trains for CDOT on a contract basis. Shore Line East provides service for CDOT from New Haven to New London (in theory). Any extension to Rhode Island would be a partnership between CDOT and RIDOT and would have nothing to do with Metro-North.

-otto-


Otto-

Thank you for your info. I do realize the nature of the present arrangements, but they are ugly at best. What does CDOT know about running a railroad if most of their operations are contracted out to MetroNorth, what economies of scale do they offer? What about RIDOT?

Perhaps they could contract the service to Amtrak like Shoreline East is contracted out. Does this work well? Amtrak has all kinds of limits on what service they offer. Amtrak could care less about this service. MetroNorth on the other hand gets more riders.

You need to think beyond the narrow entities that exist today. Why wouldn't governor Rell and governor Patterson support the idea of expanding MetroNorth beyond where it has traditionally gone. Now there are more people going to other stations beyond Grand Central than to Grand Central. This is the new reality of decentralized rail.

sC
SystemsConsciousness
 

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby RearOfSignal » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:27 am

Metro-North doesn't even run past New Haven how did we get to Rhode Island? Let's worry about MNR acquiring SLE service east of NH before we expand it to RI.
Hurry up and wait at the signal!
User avatar
RearOfSignal
 
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:31 pm

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:36 am

RearOfSignal wrote:Metro-North doesn't even run past New Haven how did we get to Rhode Island? Let's worry about MNR acquiring SLE service east of NH before we expand it to RI.


Let them acquire SLE today and tomorrow expand it to Rhode Island. They should also change the name of SLE when they get it.
SystemsConsciousness
 

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby pablo » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:13 am

Yet more rampant sillyness.

It might be more productive to start small with the expansions and work from there.

In any case, no state will pay money that benefits another state...espeically if that state doesn't pony up money on their own. Even if you find an example, the examples are so few and far between that the concept is still relevant.

Dave Becker
~Dave Becker
Moderator: Fairbanks-Morse Forum
pablo
 
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:58 am
Location: Warren, PA

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:30 am

SystemsConsciousness wrote:Let them acquire SLE today and tomorrow expand it to Rhode Island. They should also change the name of SLE when they get it.


You're making our heads explode. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are an over-enthusiastic high school railfan, and I apologize if we're all coming on strong here, but your ideas have good intentions but have zilch in reality to back them up with. Merely wishing for better services from MN will not make them so. Once again, the MTA is a New York State agency that has no intention of becoming a commuter operator for the entire region.

I kindly suggest you read up and do some research before you toss out another ill-informed proposal.

-otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20144
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby Jeff Smith » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:01 pm

SystemsConsciousness wrote:
RearOfSignal wrote:Metro-North doesn't even run past New Haven how did we get to Rhode Island? Let's worry about MNR acquiring SLE service east of NH before we expand it to RI.


Let them acquire SLE today and tomorrow expand it to Rhode Island. They should also change the name of SLE when they get it.


Nimbykiller, is that you?????

:wink:
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator
Jeff Smith
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7444
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:28 am
Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:01 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:
SystemsConsciousness wrote:Let them acquire SLE today and tomorrow expand it to Rhode Island. They should also change the name of SLE when they get it.


You're making our heads explode. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are an over-enthusiastic high school railfan, and I apologize if we're all coming on strong here, but your ideas have good intentions but have zilch in reality to back them up with. Merely wishing for better services from MN will not make them so. Once again, the MTA is a New York State agency that has no intention of becoming a commuter operator for the entire region.

I kindly suggest you read up and do some research before you toss out another ill-informed proposal.

-otto-


MTA is governed by political leadership no? At least in theory. When circumstances change, structures need to adapt with the change. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a small thinker caught up with a false sense of what is possible. But would earlier generations built the Lackawanna Cutoff or the Triboro Bridge with your kind of thinking? I doubt it very much.

I think you are confusing me with some kind of blind rail enthusiast. What I am proposing is a new way of thinking of rail. Not a secondary means of transportation, but rather as a primary means. This means shaking things up. With the right political leadership this is possible.

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of the MTA. I strongly recommend you read Robert Caro's book, the Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York. Before Triboro was merged with the railroads and subways, who would have said that was possible? Would you have? Honestly? Maybe you need to think a little bigger, no?
SystemsConsciousness
 

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby Otto Vondrak » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:11 pm

SystemsConsciousness wrote:MTA is governed by political leadership no?


Yes, and their first interest is serving the citizens of New York State. Only.

But would earlier generations built the Lackawanna Cutoff or the Triboro Bridge with your kind of thinking? I doubt it very much.


The Lackawanna Cut-off was built at the turn of the century by a private enterprise. Putting the Depression-era, publicly-funded Triboro in there is not the same league. All I can do is reason and think with the tools that 2008 gives me, not 1908 or 1929.

I think you are confusing me with some kind of blind rail enthusiast.


Okay, so I'm guessing high school senior or college freshman. We just want to know who we're addressing.

What I am proposing is a new way of thinking of rail. Not a secondary means of transportation, but rather as a primary means. This means shaking things up. With the right political leadership this is possible.


Wheeee! Here's where I'm getting off this ride. Have fun changing the wills and minds of New York State's leaders. Have fun finding billions of dollars in non-existent funding. Will you please read the thread about why New York does not have a statewide transit agency?

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of the MTA...?


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. See ya!

-=otto-
----------------------------------------------
Moderator: New York State Railfan :: New York Central :: Toy Trains
NYW&B Fan Site :: A Magazine I Read Often :: A Museum I Volunteer At
User avatar
Otto Vondrak
 
Posts: 20144
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: New York

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:16 pm

Two words for you Otto, "Michael Bloomberg." Bloomberg would have the type of power that a Governor Rockefeller could command.

What was the price of oil 10 years ago, what is it today?

There is an opportunity now for leadership to emerge that there wasn't ten years ago with cheap oil. The public would support it. Economic development through rail and intelligent health care policy would be enough to build statewide--even region wide--political support for a major shift on transportation. Maybe one day you will see things more clearly.
SystemsConsciousness
 

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby RearOfSignal » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Do you listen to what everyone has said? You have said absolutely nothing, zero, nadda, that hasn't been said on this very board before. Please, please, please read the topics mentioned here before by means of the search feature and you'll find your questions have already been answered. They may not all be in one place, but when you put them together you get your answer. It's more than big thinking, thinking outside of the box, or the bun or whatever especially when your don't have all the facts. It's not that we don't won't to discuss your ideas, but they are not new and you have not researched the topics at hand and we have several times in several topics on several boards tried to explain to you why not, but you refuse to hear. Are we saying it's impossible, no. But the way things are now and with what you are proposing they are incredibly unlikely. Why is it unlikely you ask? Well if you looked at the previous threads on these topics then you would know why.
Hurry up and wait at the signal!
User avatar
RearOfSignal
 
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:31 pm

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby NortheastTrainMan » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:10 am

SystemsConsciousness wrote:Does anyone know why it does not make sense for Metronorth extend on the Northeast Corridor to Rhode Island, removing Amtrak from being responsible for Shoreline east and improving the service?

I realize this is not what MetroNorth was created for, but I would imagine that the subsidies that are presently supporting Amtrak could be given to MN and the railroad would probably run better.


I appreciate your imagination Systems Consciousness :-D !That would be great! But it won't happen MNCR doesn't have the equipment to do so. SLE covers mainly New Haven-Old Saybrook and are based in CT. MNCR has enough problems to deal with on their 3 lines (Hudson,Harlem, and New Haven). I could see if there was a commuter agency that covered service from Old Saybrook to Providence but no way in this world could it be MNCR. It's just impossible and uneccesary. Also the Thames river bridge is controlled by the US Coast Guard forced Amtrak to curtail some serivces.
As of now SLE only has one train that crosses the TRB into New London so MNCR absorbing SLE with service to Providence is out of the question here, and no Amtrak will not curtail any more trains for a commuter train.

People please SystemsConsciousness just has an imagination like a what if!?!type. He's talking about if this were to happen not that it could. Because it costs way too much and MNCR was built to serve New York State-CT. So ya'll don't have to attack S.C. by berating his imaginations this is a forum based on railroads. Now you can't expect everyone wanting to talk about realistic railroad topics like I said he had a what if question. It doesn't matter how old S.C. is it's just a question even if it couldn't happen it's a WHAT IF!!?? So be nice please.
I like trains and operations mainly on the east coast but also all over the U.S. and the world!

I only know what is open to the public nothing more.
User avatar
NortheastTrainMan
 
Posts: 401
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:47 pm

Re: Metro North to Rhode Island

Postby SystemsConsciousness » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:20 am

Thank you very much. NETrainMan.

Unfortunately, it does matter how old I am though. I wish I were as young as I were given debit for :-)

Perhaps there needs to be some kind of major reorganization like the one that created the MTA in the first place. I think we are entering a new era where public transit is not only valued but encouraged. All of the governors in the Northeast (PA, NJ, NY, CT, MA) share this view and don't have the type of hostility to mass transit that many of the predecessors had.

But most of all, thank you for your kind message.

sC
SystemsConsciousness
 

Next

Return to MTA Metro-North Railroad and CtDOT Passenger Rail

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests