Grand Central Hoaxes (GCT baggage car on the Today Show)

Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

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Postby Otto Vondrak » Sun May 11, 2008 9:51 pm

So okay, who's going to call the networks and MN and call their bluff?

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Postby DutchRailnut » Sun May 11, 2008 9:54 pm

I send A Email to Dan Bruckner to try to explain it to him, well see.

This car was twice already made availavle to DRM but as soon as Museum accepted all communication stopped. The car does belong to wreck train they already got.
There was even a FRA waiver to move the car one way, without getting it in date as long as the brakes worked.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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As for FDR'S car -government rail cars- ...

Postby tomjohn » Wed May 14, 2008 9:31 am

Being that we are on the topic of government related train cars, I did some research through the FDR library website. I received a reply from them about this "not FDR'S private car". Please see below for FDR library reply...

Tom
_____________

This is in response to your recent inquiry to the Franklin D. Roosevelt
Presidential Library concerning the railroad siding and platform beneath
the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City.

We are familiar with the tracks to which you are referring. FDR used
the tracks beneath the Waldorf only once, the evening of October 21,
1944 following his delivery of a speech on war and peace to the Foreign
Policy Association during the 1944 campaign.

The President had arrived in New York from Washington at 7:00 a.m. at
the Army Supply Base, Bayridge, Brooklyn. He then started a famous
rain-soaked open car motor tour of New York City that included the
Brooklyn Navy Yard, Ebbets Field, travel through Queens, Hunter College
in the Bronx, and through Manhattan. The tour ended at Mrs. Roosevelt's
apartment in Washington Square where FDR dried off and rested until his
speaking engagement to the Foreign Policy Association at the Waldorf.
In the meantime, the President's train assembly was moved from Bayside,
via Grand Central, to the private siding beneath the Waldorf. Following
the speech, the President exited the hotel via the east side Lexington
Avenue elevator, then proceeded via the New York Central elevator (I
believe this would be the street level elevator on 49th between Park
Avenue and Lexington Avenue) to the siding located below the hotel where
the train assembly was "spotted." The train then proceeded to
Poughkeepsie where it arrived at 2:30 a.m. The entire train remained
there with the President on board until 7:30 at which time the two
presidential cars were detached and moved to the siding below the
Roosevelt Estate in Hyde Park where the President detrained.

As previously stated, this is the only time that President Roosevelt
used this siding. It apparently had been previously installed for the
privacy of the Waldorf's elite guests, not specially for President
Roosevelt.

We are aware of the old train car below the Waldorf and have seen it.
While it seems of World War II vintage, it is definitely not a passenger
or Pullman car. Rather, it appears to be a baggage or freight car of
some sort. As yet no documentation or proof has been found that
directly links it to FDR in anyway. Certainly we have not found any
such documentation in our records here at the Library.

I hope this information proves helpful.

Sincerely yours,
Bob Clark

Bob Clark
Supervisory Archivist
Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library
4079 Albany Post Road Hyde Park, NY 12538
Phone 845.486.7742 Fax 845.486.1147
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Postby CarterB » Wed May 14, 2008 11:09 am

BINGO!!! That letter should be forwarded to NBC, Discovery Channel, History Channel AND to Mr. Bruckner!!!
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!
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Horse cars

Postby H.F.Malone » Wed May 14, 2008 5:14 pm

The "horse express" baggage cars had a pair of hinged swinging end doors at one end. There were folding horse stalls inside; folding so that the cars could also be used as plain baggs if needed. A number of roads had these, B&O, NYC, and especially PRR. The PRR cars were named for horse farms and racetracks around the country. "Horse cars" were usually longer, 70 ft, than most standard baggae cars were-- 60 ft.

There is one NYC horse car at Valley RR in Essex, CT-- it is painted dark red (!!!) and is used for grill car, dinner train and other storage at Essex. That car came from North Adams Jct in Pittsfield, Ma about 18 years ago.
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Postby jgallaway81 » Wed May 14, 2008 8:07 pm

Working on the assumption that the staff of FDR's Presidential Library would have access to, and have done the research to confirm such things, their statement that the car is neither a pullman nor passenger car would re-inforce the RPO/Baggage thesis.

To further this thesis, might I point out a segment from the current issue of trains that features the 2-page article on J.T.'s efforts with the Make A Difference Day Express... there was a question about "Horse Express" cars.... might this be such a car?
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Postby DutchRailnut » Wed May 14, 2008 8:23 pm

I took pictures of the car today and its NYC heritage, it has one 8 foot door and 6 foot door on each side, the 8 foot door is a split door a 5 footer and 3 footer, both ends have Hhndbrake wheels. no markings inside or outsde other than castings of trucks. the car has old style celestory roof.

Now after a conversation with ex GCT superintendent P. Hansen, he told me the current car did not arrive at GCT till 1984 and was somehow rounded up by North white Plains Wreck Master Ed Withney.
The new sling car was made cause NYFD wanted old sling car out of there, it was a wooden car. this all after big coach fire on lower level.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu May 15, 2008 9:19 pm

I asked the Harlem Shop Superintendent who has all Mof W car records, this is what he answered:

The info I have is that is was built in 1929 and the previous number was PC 28216.

Sorry that's all I have.

Some info from my pictures:

The Trucks were repacked on 9/85 in NWP
The big bagage doors have 3 windows in large leaf and 2 in smaller door leaf, the other door is a 4 window door.
The truck castings read NYC A6373
The ends only have a passenger type diaphram door, no horsedoors or car doors.
Last edited by DutchRailnut on Thu May 15, 2008 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PRRGuy » Thu May 15, 2008 9:30 pm

Here's a link to a similar car. The PC numbe listed is a Penn Central MOW number, I haven't been able to find a photo yet but I think it's a safe bet this is a former NYC baggage car.


http://rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc-x24210akg.jpg
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu May 15, 2008 9:35 pm

The car in GCT does not have the automotive type doors on end but the side doors look the same.
Could the NYC number have been 8216 ???
NYC 8211-8245 were designed by ACF in 1921 (service life 1921 to 1968)

Image
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More Baggage

Postby H.F.Malone » Thu May 15, 2008 10:19 pm

PRR Guy--

That yellow PC bagg is indeed ex-NYC; it's a 70-foot 6-axle car, with an end door (as shown in pic). The horse car variation of these had three doors per side, and a number of windows/ventilators on each side, located high up on the sides, just under the letterboard.

This car is another baggage car variant called a "theatrical scenery car", designed for large panels of scenery for "shows on the road" to be placed into the car from the end. PRR had a bunch of these too (no surprise there) and they were named with theatrical-related names-- WAGNER, JULIET, etc. Two large sliding doors per side, where the horse cars had three.

There is probably a list of the PRR car names for these baggs someplace on the 'net.
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PRR baggs

Postby H.F.Malone » Thu May 15, 2008 10:27 pm

http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/Foreign/PRR/PRR-BE.htm

Scroll on down to the bottom for the horse and scenery cars.
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Postby DutchRailnut » Thu May 15, 2008 10:32 pm

The car is definitly not PRR so were getting off course.
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mid-course correction

Postby H.F.Malone » Thu May 15, 2008 11:58 pm

Just trying to be helpful, Dutch, and show the young 'uns some of the ancient history and explain quaint terms like "horse car" and "scenery car".

Yes, I used the dreaded PRR as an example; gimme 12 lashes with a wet noodle!

It's still kinda neat that they named baggage cars.

Fact is, the SECRET FDR CAR is a plain NYC 60-foot bagg.
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Postby jgallaway81 » Fri May 16, 2008 10:56 am

Give me a PRR K4s 4-6-2 anyday!!!!

Course I'd just as soon have a 7,000dbhp 2-6-6-6 C&O Allegheny!

:-p
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