Beacon Line Service Proposals or Ideas

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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby Nester » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:56 pm

DutchRailnut wrote:and I betya its not even half full even in busiest hours.

It's one of those chicken-egg situations. There is little if any parking along the route so if you need to get into your car to get to the bus you might as well continue on to Beacon or New Hamburg and park there. When I ride in the morning I am surrounded by people from Fishkill and Hopewell Junction. If the buses met every train they'd be full (or full-er). But the county is going to subsidize a fleet of empty buses.

It would be nice to get all of those cars off the roads but unless you triple or quadruple the density of southern Dutchess the numbers (passengers and revenue) aren't there to justify doing anything meaningful with the Beacon line between Hopewell and Beacon. I hate to admit it but DutchRailnut is right. :)
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:05 pm

add to it that busses can head other way since roads are bi-directional a shuttle train would occupy entire block and be only train.
now add that beacon line is 25 mph max and would need a signal system (PTC) for passenger use and possibility of second train.
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:42 am

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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:00 pm

the D before the T - reverse TOD > RTOD



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BEACON LINE POPULATION SERVED
the population data is from the US 2010 census


city of Beacon:
15,541 (also served by the Hudson line)

population totals excluding Beacon - combined towns of Fishkill,village of Fishkill and town of East Fishkill:
53,307

metro City of Beacon with above (excluding the towns of Beekman and Pawling):
68,805 > vs. Mt. Vernon (Westchester county) 67,292

town of Beekman:
14,621

town of Pawling:
8,463 (also served by the Harlem line)


grand total southern Dutchess/Beacon metro including the towns of Beekman and Pawling:
91,932

NOTE: since this census there has been population growth in Fishkill and Beacon and there is ongoing commercial development in Fishkill
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:21 pm

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in the above illustrations which one looks most like southern Dutchess of 2015?
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:53 pm

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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:09 pm

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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby Nester » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:18 pm

Interesting presentation, but what solution does it offer? You have a bus that currently runs from Beacon's train station up to Main Street, and on to Route 9/Walmart/Westage Center. It's not full. Competing with that using a diesel MU or something similar is going to be more expensive and also run empty. It also fails to serve the two destinations that fill the bus (Main St. Beacon traffic and Westage/Walmart)

Also, the idea of placing the Fishkill station in the village behind the shopping plaza with CVS is likely to be a non-starter without additional traffic improvements on Main St/Route 52. It's a two-lane road that is a mess during "rush hours". That says nothing for the people on Blodgett or the folks who use the businesses in the CVS plaza. It also doesn't serve the Route 9 corridor (the same person using the bus isn't going to walk to Route 9 and then south to get to Westage or Walmart).

The population growth does not (nor does the original population number) take into account the number of residents who work in New York City or other communities served by the MNR Hudson line. How many of these new residents work in Manhattan? How many work at other businesses on Route 9? Or in Brewster? Or White Plains?

A DMU could be a nice feeder to Beacon from Hopewell if you could get enough cars off the road to make difference or attract new riders to use the system. As you have half-empty buses already running a portion of the route, experimenting with service that would cannibalize it seems like a waste.

If MNR had a spare $400MM (ha!) you could upgrade the line and eliminate some killer grade crossings (like Route 9) and provide service from Beacon to Brewster. But how many people live up here to take advantage of it? Unless White Plains becomes the new Manhattan and generates a job boom and related population growth, this seems like a railfan/policy wonk fantasy for our lifetimes.
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby bigK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:31 pm

everybody already knows this but here's the actual data:

re: Moving Dutchess FIRST DRAFT chap. 5


The Council collects traffic count data for County and some local roads and also receives count data from NYSDOT for State highways. Based on a review of data from 2009-2014, the following roads have consistently had the highest
ranges of Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) volumes in the County:

1. I-84: 50,000-68,000
2. Route 9 (south of Poughkeepsie): 18,000-64,000
3. Route 44 (east of Pleasant Valley): 14,000-38,000
4. Taconic State Parkway (south of LaGrange): 18,000-35,000
5. Route 55 (west of Pawling): 7,000-31,000
6. Route 376: 6,000-27,000
7. Route 9 (north of Poughkeepsie): 9,000-23,000
8. Route 82 (south of LaGrange): 6,000-21,000
9. Route 44 (west of Pleasant Valley): 3,000-21,000
10. CR 77 (Vassar Rd): 10,000-17,000
11. CR 44 (Red Oaks Mill Rd): 12,000-16,000
12. CR 93 (Myers Corners Rd): 7,000-15,000

1. Congested: >1.30
2. Approaching Congestion: 1.15-1.30
3. Not congested: <1.15

Based on the congestion analysis, the following roadways in Dutchess County experienced congestion during one or more peak periods in 2011:
1. Route 52 (westbound) from I-84 to the Taconic State Parkway: Weekday evening (TTI = 1.58).
2. Route 9 (northbound) from I-84 to Route 44/55: Weekday evening (TTI = 1.54).
3. Route 9 (southbound) from Route 9G to Route 44/55: Saturday (TTI =1.53).
4. Route 9 (southbound) from Route 44/55 to I-84: Saturday (TTI = 1.52) and Weekday evening (TTI = 1.51).


take note of the figures for SR52
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby truck6018 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:53 pm

The population or traffic numbers are moot. Unless a Fishkill - Beacon train has frequent service, commuters will find alternatives as proven on the Harlem and New Haven Lines. Logistically, the current lay out of both the Beacon Line and Hudson Line from CP58 to the station does not support it.

Back to the Harlem and New Haven Lines: even though there are statons in Paterson, Pawling, etc, some commuters choose to drive to Southeast where the service is more frequent. The same hold true for commuters that live along the Danbury Branch. There are some that live in Danbury that will drive to Southeast and some that live farther south that will drive to Norwalk. Why? Quicker travel times with no connections. People want to get off the train, get in their car and go home. Not wait for a connection. Expecially when their drive would be quicker than waiting for another train.

This isn't a if you build it, they will come situation. The cost would be astronomical with little benifit, expecially to those that would foot the bill, the taxpayers. It's bad enough everyone in Dutchess ounty has to pay MTA tax every time they register there car or renew their drivers license, regardless if they ever see a train in their lifetime. Let's not add insult to injury.
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:58 pm

a operation between Hopewell and Beacon would mimic the New Canaan line, with a max of one train per hour over the 11.6 miles of single track and no room for passing tracks.
a bus operation would be capable of moving 3 times passengers with two buses (2 operators ) at way below cost .
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby Jeff Smith » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:02 pm

I have mad foamer love for the Beacon Line. There are lots of interesting possibilities, but no money, and right now, no market.
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby Noel Weaver » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:57 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:I have mad foamer love for the Beacon Line. There are lots of interesting possibilities, but no money, and right now, no market.


I can understand where you are coming from. For a rather short branch line it was very interesting to run a long freight train over it. It was a real challenge to run with a long train in either direction. The most difficult was from Hopewell to Beacon, mostly downgrade and a real challenge with a long train and poor dynamic brake or in some cases no dynamic brake. I guess I had the good lord upstairs watching over me because I had good luck running that line. From Beacon to Hopewell the trains were not as long but all loads and heavy, we needed all five units on that one. As I have said many times it was my weekend ride in the country. Unfortunately it is a memory today and not very likely to ever return either.
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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:05 pm

like Noel said, chance of it to ever to operate trains are nill..
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: The Beacon Line

Postby Steamboat Willie » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:08 pm

Noel - interesting noting the challenging portions on the NY side. In your opinion on the CT side (technically Maybrook line) were the challenging parts being near Stevenson Dam and what looks like a steady uphill grade when going north going through Webb Mountain/Indian Well State park? I am always curious of that area whenever I take Rte34 to New Haven for work. Probably the most scenic part in CT.
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