Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

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Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby Union Tpke » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:50 am

I know that the Hudson Line's fourth track in the Bronx was removed in the 1960s and 1970s, and that the existing stations were put on the roadbed. Was this done in conjunction with the installation of high level platforms or before it? Also, when exactly was the track removed? Finally, is there any reason that it should be reinstalled? Thanks.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby johndmuller » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Well if they wanted to do more passenger business in the Bronx, they might need to have more room to pass stopped locals. For the most part, there seems to be room to do something along those lines, but there is the obvious 2 track chokepoint between Marble Hill and Spuyten Duyvil to deal with if you want to get really serious about packing in the trains. It all could be done, I guess they just aren't feeling it.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby RearOfSignal » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:07 pm

Well another track wouldn’t fix much in the Bronx on the Hudson line. They would also have to reconfigure 3 stations Marble Hill, University Heights and Morris Heights. What’s unusual about those stations is that the platforms are on the inside track, well track 2 side. Track 4 is the express track. CP 10 and CP 11 are not universal interlockings so locals have to move from track 4 to 2 at CP 11 going south while the expresses would in theory move from 2 to 4 at CP 10. So either way you’ll have to cross over trains in front of one another unless the station platforms are reconfigured. Gong north on track 4 creates an even bigger mess because northward expresses would have to cross tracks twice at CP 10 and 11 (or CP 12), to get to track 1. And remember once you get to CP 19 no third rail on 1, so electric trains have to cross over again. That’s a lot of shuffling.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby Traingeek3629 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:45 am

Not to mention while everything is being reconfigured a bunch of trains will be cancelled and others will make extra stops like on the Harlem Line.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby Ridgefielder » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:47 am

johndmuller wrote:Well if they wanted to do more passenger business in the Bronx, they might need to have more room to pass stopped locals. For the most part, there seems to be room to do something along those lines, but there is the obvious 2 track chokepoint between Marble Hill and Spuyten Duyvil to deal with if you want to get really serious about packing in the trains. It all could be done, I guess they just aren't feeling it.

There's a rock cut between Marble Hill and Spuyten Duyvil. The cut only has room for two tracks, and widening it is pretty much out of the question: there are multiple apartment buildings up against the ROW on one side, and on the other is the Harlem River Ship Canal.

Anyway, the far West Bronx, the part served by the Hudson Division, is not as densely-populated as the rest of the borough. West of Van Cortlandt Park it's downright suburban, with big 1920's single-family houses on 1/8-acre lots. I just don't think the demand is there for more service-- unlike over on the other side of the borough, along the Hell Gate line.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby johndmuller » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 am

More tracks could be added in the area of the "rock cut" in any of several different ways. None of them would be as easy as just laying down the track, and would probably engender some environmental objections due to filling in some of the Harlem river canal or whatever the official name of that waterway is. There is plenty of waterway to give up 10 or 15 feet of, rather little river traffic, particularly of any significant size, and probably some could come from the landward side anyway, by shaving down the slope or undercutting a semi-tunnel into the cliff.

West of Van Cortlandt Park is more like the territory that would patronize the Riverdale or SD stations; Marble Hill is south of that park.

Marble Hill to Yankee Stadium is the main area of interest and there are plenty of people living along that route who could patronize the stops along that stretch. The terrain is kind of vertical, with the railroad at the bottom more or less alongside the river and a lot of apartment buildings on the hillside, with a freeway in between. Not at all impossible for pedestrians to get to the stations, but not ideal either, especially as there are two subway lines at the top of the hill that are cheaper and offer better connections and also some bus lines. Nonetheless, MN is probably a better choice for some, at least, the exact number varies with the MN fares and the specific point in the neighborhood one is starting from / going to.

From what I've seen of these areas, Coop City is the only part of the Hell Gate station-territories with anywhere near the number of potential riders that could use the station along the Harlem, and the station is at the tip of Coop City compared to the RR; the rest is not particularly within walking distance, so you are already talking about a 2 seat ride and you are going to Penn Station, probably in need at least one more seat.

I don't really think that either of these sections are going to provide a lot of passengers, unless the fares are dropped to subway levels - and maybe not even then - and even if then there would also be other difficulties if the idea were too successful.
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Re: Hudson Line Fourth Track in the Bronx

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:20 am

Adding a third track between Marble Hill and Spuyten Duyvil would have to involve probably removing the rock cut and with the apartments along the north side of the tracks and rocks, it may be tough.

As for Co-op City, the Hellgate Line passes along the fringe of the section and a little far from where the commercial parts and many of the apartments are. I know because I had an aunt who lived there. Many people who live in Co-op City or the surrounding area would need to either drive or get dropped off in Co-op City. The plus with the proposed station location is that it is very close to Pelham Bay Park so it would serve many functions.
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