Cool Article on New Caanan branch

[mxnick]

Saw this posted in the local paper. Its actually pretty well done! Does anyone have any photos of the exterior of the PV?

We all dream about traveling first class. Big comfy seats, real food and free drinks. This is the only way to fly.
But did you know there used to be a handful of private, first-class “club cars” on the New Haven Railroad’s commuter trains? Among the most legendary was Car 5113 that ran from New Canaan from 1908 to 1976.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/arti ... 338126.php

[DutchRailnut]

to many errors , the club cars went out in 1976, 7 years before Metro North was created.
No locomotive hauled trains to New Canaan, before the M-2's came to branch the service was run with ex New Haven washboard MU.
5113 was one of the washboards and could not be made compatible with the M-2's different braking, different propulsion, different couplers .

http://i64.tinypic.com/2em0jrq.jpg

[TomNelligan]

Among the most legendary was Car 5113 that ran from New Canaan from 1908 to 1976.

Isn't time travel marvelous? The New Haven's "washboard" MUs, of which 5113 was one, were built in 1954, so it must have been interesting to see it back in 1908. (Actually, that date was when the New Canaan branch was electrified.) Club car 5113 was one of four (5110-5113) in that 1954 order for a total of 100 cars. In the pre-M2 era the NH also ran several old heavyweight coaches that had been converted to subscription club cars on conventional (non-MU) trains.

[Ridgefielder]

I thought the New Canaan Branch was electrified earlier than that-- at some point in the 1890's. 1908 was when the main line electrification reached Stamford.

Wasn't it true that some subscribers attempted to pay the State of Connecticut to outfit an M-2 set as a club car?

[TCurtin]

Wasn't it true that some subscribers attempted to pay the State of Connecticut to outfit an M-2 set as a club car?

Indeed ---- and I remember reading at the time that the club told the state something to the effect that they could "name their price."

The state refused. One version of the story was that the DOT was amenable to the idea but Gov. Ella Grasso overruled them with some
comment to the effect that "we don't cater to the elite." This, despite the probability that the state would have made out financially on the
deal.

[DutchRailnut]

and if they catered to elite the state would have set themselves up for a massive lawsuit, state decisions are suppose to benefit all

[andrewjw]

if they had charged them an arm and a leg, the decision would have benefited all... since the elite would have been bankrolling everyone else's trains just to get their club car.

[Backshophoss]

Gov Grasso's decision was in line with MTA's decision to do away with the private club cars,as the long overdue retirement of steam heated
cars,being replaced by M-1's/M-3's and Comet/Shoreline cars on the Hudson and Harlem lines.
Having a pair of M-2's dedicated to a private club's exclusive use would have the other "disbanded" clubs asking for/demanding "their" private
pair or comet car for "their" exclusive use.

[ExCon90]

So charge them enough that they would have to really, really want it, not neglecting to figure in any possible incidental switching costs. Any money over incremental costs, as andrewjw pointed out, benefits all by reducing the need for subsidy. (Maybe the Governor was thinking of what it would look like rather than evaluating the substance of the argument--politicians tend to do that.)

[R36 Combine Coach]

Gov Grasso's decision was in line with MTA's decision to do away with the private club cars,as the long overdue retirement of steam heated cars,being replaced by M-1's/M-3's and Comet/Shoreline cars on the Hudson and Harlem lines.

But in 1988 the JSCC got a brand new Comet II club car as NJT was replacing the older postwar streamlined equipment. This seems to be a one-time exception. When the Lackawanna electric fleet was out of service in 1984, the clubs folded and did not return on the new Arrows.

[DutchRailnut]

think we are now diverting to wrong railroad...

[Ridgefielder]

Gov Grasso's decision was in line with MTA's decision to do away with the private club cars,as the long overdue retirement of steam heated
cars,being replaced by M-1's/M-3's and Comet/Shoreline cars on the Hudson and Harlem lines.
Having a pair of M-2's dedicated to a private club's exclusive use would have the other "disbanded" clubs asking for/demanding "their" private
pair or comet car for "their" exclusive use.

The M2's started to come online in 1973 under Penn Central, and the decision we're talking about was made in ~1975. Steam heated rolling stock didn't disappear for another decade, until all the Shoreliners were delivered and the leased ex-SEMTA equipment went away. Gov. Grasso was long dead by then. I wouldn't conflate the two actions.

Politics aside, I really do think it was an issue of operational flexibility that led to the demise of the clubs. Let's say Conn DOT accepted the club's offer to pay for an M2 set to be specially outfitted. What happens to that equipment in the ~22hrs a day when it's not on the way into or out of GCT? Does it get cut off the train and stowed somewhere in GCT? Or is it left in the consist but closed as the set runs in off-peak service on other routes (in which case the same set has to be scheduled back into GCT in time for the evening rush)? And how is it to be serviced? That wasn't an issue for the New Haven, or even Penn Central, with their commissariats set up to maintain dining etc. service on the Shore Line express trains. That would be an issue for Conrail and the MTA.

[Noel Weaver]

The first 144 M-2's came in 1972 and 1973, soon after they decided on 100 more and these came maybe in 1976 or so. I seem to think the MU club cars lasted until the second bunch of M-2's came on line. Actually there were five MU club cars because combo 4670 was converted to accomodate the Southport group after the Southport car started having mechanical problems during this time. I was told at the time that the state owned cars (M-2's) had to be available at all times to all passengers, hence no more private cars and I think the decision was fair and proper. I still think they could have and should have held on to the 4400's, some of them were in good shape when they retired them. They could have kept the private cars running for a bit longer than they did.
Incidentally until the 4400's came in the early to mid 1950's there was still an standard coach train or two on the New Canaan Branch, the through New York trains were the last use of the Pony Motors and after they finally retired the last of the Pony Motors they used a Westinghouse Motor on these two trains.
Noel Weaver

[TCurtin]

Until the 4400's came in the early to mid 1950's there was still an standard coach train or two on the New Canaan Branch, the through New York trains were the last use of the Pony Motors and after they finally retired the last of the Pony Motors they used a Westinghouse Motor on these two trains.
Noel Weaver

That's right. Trains 331-332 had a Westinghouse motor and coaches AND the New Canaan Club Car of that period, which had been heavyweight parlor #2047 "Westport" (a 32 ch 1 DR car) converted to club car 5105 about 1948 or so. I think the MU set containing club car #5113 entered New Canaan service about July 1954.

[R36 Combine Coach]

The first 144 M-2's came in 1972 and 1973, soon after they decided on 100 more and these came maybe in 1976 or so. I seem to think the MU club cars lasted until the second bunch of M-2's came on line.

The base 144 car order was accepted for service April-December 1973, though the first few pilot pairs were delivered from GE in 1972 (bar cars coming last in early 1974). The 100 car option (8700/8800 series) was 1975-76.