Diesel train backwards?

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Diesel train backwards?

Postby roysmith » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:35 am

Today's 7:22 from NRO->GCT is a diesel (as it usually is). But today, the locomotive is pulling the train heading downtown. I've never seen that before. Usually, the locomotives are pushing heading downtown, and pulling on the outbound trip. Any idea why the train is reversed today?
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:27 am

They run them that way and loop them if there's an issue with the cab car.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby railfan365 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:55 pm

I've heard that the turnaround loop at GCT canbe used conveniently to turn some trains. but how would they turn a train at the outlying terminal? And why have Amtrak trains that are usually single ended been doubled for service to Grand Central?
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:16 pm

railfan365 wrote:And why have Amtrak trains that are usually single ended been doubled for service to Grand Central?
First saves them the loop. Having P42 as a cab unit in push mode eases the operations (easy in and out of GCT) and no wyes or turning would be required. Given the short turnaround at NYG this would be important.

railfan365 wrote:I've heard that the turnaround loop at GCT canbe used conveniently to turn some trains. but how would they turn a train at the outlying terminal?
Danbury has a full loop, Mott Haven has a wye, as is Naugatuck Junction east of Stratford and possibly consists could be turned at NHV as well.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby DutchRailnut » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:45 pm

add to that the New Haven loop , the Mott Haven wye , Brewster wye .
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby roysmith » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:08 am

GirlOnTheTrain wrote:They run them that way and loop them if there's an issue with the cab car.


Interesting. I remember that day the train came into one of the tracks that dead-ends. So, they still would have had to run it in the "wrong" orientation on the outbound trip.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby Ridgefielder » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:30 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote:
railfan365 wrote:I've heard that the turnaround loop at GCT canbe used conveniently to turn some trains. but how would they turn a train at the outlying terminal?
Danbury has a full loop, Mott Haven has a wye, as is Naugatuck Junction east of Stratford and possibly consists could be turned at NHV as well.

Danbury doesn't have a loop. It just looks that way because of the way the Danbury Branch connects with the Maybrook. It does, however, have a turntable, which MNR has used once in a blue moon.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby deathtopumpkins » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:51 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:Danbury doesn't have a loop. It just looks that way because of the way the Danbury Branch connects with the Maybrook. It does, however, have a turntable, which MNR has used once in a blue moon.


Sure, it requires an extra backup move to use, but this sure looks like a loop to me...
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:20 pm

Ridgefielder is wrong , the normal yarding is via the loop, to turn a train it backs down link track back to station .
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby RearOfSignal » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:13 pm

Ridgefielder wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:
railfan365 wrote:I've heard that the turnaround loop at GCT canbe used conveniently to turn some trains. but how would they turn a train at the outlying terminal?
Danbury has a full loop, Mott Haven has a wye, as is Naugatuck Junction east of Stratford and possibly consists could be turned at NHV as well.

Danbury doesn't have a loop. It just looks that way because of the way the Danbury Branch connects with the Maybrook. It does, however, have a turntable, which MNR has used once in a blue moon.


Definitely a loop in Danbury. Equipment gets "linked out" essentially a loop track.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:40 pm

Not quite sure how the "property lines" mesh,the Danbury main and passing siding connect to the HRRC Maybrook main track,past the
old station/Museum heading east.
To complete the "Loop" you reverse direction then use the yard ladder track that DRM uses to return to the Danbury Main track just east of the current MN/ConnDOT Station platform. That should get the power on the proper end for the "Push" mode run into South Norwalk/GCT.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby Ridgefielder » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:26 am

Backshophoss wrote:Not quite sure how the "property lines" mesh,the Danbury main and passing siding connect to the HRRC Maybrook main track,past the
old station/Museum heading east.
To complete the "Loop" you reverse direction then use the yard ladder track that DRM uses to return to the Danbury Main track just east of the current MN/ConnDOT Station platform. That should get the power on the proper end for the "Push" mode run into South Norwalk/GCT.

My bad. Totally forgot about the track that crosses the Still River.

Danbury really does have a rather strange layout, doesn't it?
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:31 pm

When the Danbury branch was under the wire,Danbury was the power change point for the thru trains to/from Pittsfield Ma,
or the weekend RDC connecting service to/from Pittsfield Ma. That changed with the FL-9's and removal of the wire on the branch.
The Pittsfield trains ran on the Maybrook east to Berkshire Jct then went north to Pittsfield.
To complete the "Loop" move was always over the Danbury yard ladder track from the Maybrook main back to Danbury branch main
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby pnaw10 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:08 am

roysmith wrote:
GirlOnTheTrain wrote:They run them that way and loop them if there's an issue with the cab car.


Interesting. I remember that day the train came into one of the tracks that dead-ends. So, they still would have had to run it in the "wrong" orientation on the outbound trip.


Did you wait to see if it went back out that way? If the cab car was inoperable and the loop track was unavailable for some reason, they could have waited for the passengers to leave and then sent another locomotive in to couple onto the cab car and pull the train out.

Sure, sending in a "rescue locomotive" is more work, but it might have been considered "the lesser evil" compared to your train's unexpected need for a loop track causing several other trains to be late. If your train normally comes down Park Ave on track 1 or 2 (the inside tracks) and is sent right down the middle, routing to the loop tracks would potentially involve crossing in front of one or more other trains to get to the loop tracks. That could delay other trains that normally arrive or leave GCT at the same time your train arrives: in order for your train to cross in front of them, the other trains would have to stop and wait for your train to clear out of the way (at 10 mph or less) and then they have to wait for RTC to re-line all the switches and give green signals. During peak hours, an unexpected change like this could seriously mess with on-time performance.

It's also possible that there WAS a problem previously, but there hasn't been an ample opportunity to turn the train back around to the "right" way since the problem was resolved.
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Re: Diesel train backwards?

Postby RearOfSignal » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:36 pm

There are not that many spare locomotives just hanging around GCT. You're making something very simple, into something very difficult. They would just loop, or send it our to Harmon as a deadhead after the morning rush, or perhaps even later in the day during the evening rush if the head end was bad. You'll often see such bad equipment sitting on track 8 in Highbridge waiting to get moved to Harmon. There are unscheduled deadheads available for just such a thing.
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