Additional M8 Cars Ordered

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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:36 pm

Then the question is,How long to reconstruct the M8 production line at Lincoln,if the CT bond people approve the project??
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:39 pm

not until other projects currently being handled are finished, believe their building Washington cars
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:04 pm

Backshophoss wrote:Then the question is,How long to reconstruct the M8 production line at Lincoln,if the CT bond people approve the project??


Certainly not until after all M9's are finished, as that's the nearest-match for assembly lines they'd have to overhaul and the MTA is not going to let its well-laid plans get pre-empted by one of their own partners. Slotting vs. the WMATA subway cars and other orders is tougher to peg until you tease out where all the supply chains are coming from inside and outside of Kawasaki. Probably a whole lot of "It depends..." answers and asterisks re: ability to multitask orders the further away you get into other non-M# product lines. Pecking order for final assembly at the NY factory is only a small part of the overall picture.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:37 pm

Irony here is Connecticut is laying off state workers all over, yet orders $30 million worth of bar cars ??? screw Malloy !!
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby NH2060 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:44 am

DutchRailnut wrote:Irony here is Connecticut is laying off state workers all over, yet orders $30 million worth of bar cars ??? screw Malloy !!

Honestly is there really anything more he can do to get himself even more disliked? His approval rating is astoundingly terrible as it is (probably as bad or worse than Chris Christie's) so I doubt spending that much on bar cars will tip the scales enough to improve or worsen his image. Most of CT just wants him gone altogether.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:31 pm

my earlier figure of 30 million was for earlier pricing, the new 60 cars are 5.13 million per car with no date set for production and delivery.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/m ... ine--49457
Last edited by DutchRailnut on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby Stephen B. Carey » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:35 am

While I did like having the Bar Car on the train I honestly don't think it makes sense for the New Haven line. As I have heard on this site previously the bar cars didn't really make a whole lot of money, although I will say that they sold the cheapest beer in NYC :wink: . It seems to me that it would be a whole lot cheaper to possibly get a food cart that goes through the train during peak hours. I witnessed such a system in England and it seemed to work well though the trains were certainly not as full. As someone who doesn't really use Metro North all too often (maybe 4 times a year) I would rather have seats in all 60 cars instead of a bar in ten. It just seems a better use of taxpayer dollars.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby SwingMan » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:08 pm

It may not make that much more money, but when it is used properly it generates revenue that would otherwise not be made in a car with just seats.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:55 pm

not true the same bar attendant instead of a one way trip, would make 4 times as much selling drinks in GCT, covering several platforms/trains.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby Ridgefielder » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:16 pm

Stephen B. Carey wrote:While I did like having the Bar Car on the train I honestly don't think it makes sense for the New Haven line. As I have heard on this site previously the bar cars didn't really make a whole lot of money, although I will say that they sold the cheapest beer in NYC :wink: . It seems to me that it would be a whole lot cheaper to possibly get a food cart that goes through the train during peak hours. I witnessed such a system in England and it seemed to work well though the trains were certainly not as full. As someone who doesn't really use Metro North all too often (maybe 4 times a year) I would rather have seats in all 60 cars instead of a bar in ten. It just seems a better use of taxpayer dollars.

No way you could get a cart through the aisles of a rush-hour Metro-North train. The aisles are too narrow, the trains are too crowded, and there's no diaphragm keeping out the weather between the ends of married pairs on the M-series cars.

As someone who grew up in Fairfield County I can tell you that the bar cars had a following. People liked them, people are already excited about them returning. Also, remember, it's not a one-for-one subtraction in terms of available seats. The guys standing in the bar car talking with their buddies would otherwise be sitting in seats elsewhere in the train. The usual m.o. is for one or two to arrive earlier and take over the pairs of facing seats by the vestibules (on the M-series cars) or at the end of the car (on the Shoreliners); someone else follows with the beverages.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby The EGE » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:39 pm

Sometimes, unfortunately, it is necessary to do things that are not optimal service but give you the political allowance to do what you need to do. I suspect this may be one of those cases. It may well be that some movers and shakers are very attached to bar cars - as a networking environment, for the ability to relax, etc - and that mixing some bar cars in was the price that MNRR pays for being allowed to buy additional cars at all.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:44 pm

Kawasaki so for is not mentioning any car purchase and with other cars being build , including the LIRR/MN M-9's the 60 cars are years away from arriving.
so converting the earlier 10 cars to Bar cars is not going to happen or trains would run short again.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby pnaw10 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:14 pm

The EGE wrote:...mixing some bar cars in was the price that MNRR pays for being allowed to buy additional cars at all.


Just a clarification, CDOT (not MNR) is the agency looking to spend the money for the 60 new M8s and having 10 cars retrofitted as bar cars. Note that all the news articles and posts have only mentioned the Governor and other officials from Connecticut (and asking CT voters to approve the bond to fund the purchase). Nobody from MNR itself or New York State has been mentioned. Although MTA runs the railroad, CDOT is responsible for most of the funding for the New Haven Line, since most of the line exists within Connecticut.

On a separate note: some critics point out that the bar cars have zero seats and only generate revenue on PM Peak trips. Since they're currently in the process of being designed (and won't become a reality for at least a few years), has anyone considered the possibility of designing them to serve as "coffee bars" during AM Peak? Could be a draw for people who don't (or can't) leave home early enough to get coffee elsewhere before they get on the train... or people who ride the bus to the train, and don't have the option to stop en route. Or maybe for people who want a second cup of joe about halfway through their ride (at the risk of losing their seat).

Perhaps the only reason why it might not work is because coffee doesn't have the same kind of profit margin as booze, but some might argue that a modest profit is better than whatever it would cost in wear and tear (and otherwise lost capacity) to run an empty car all morning.
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby DutchRailnut » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:32 am

selling coffee and for example danish or rolls would put the cars under US Health inspections, and we all know that is not going to work.

as for 60 car order MTA is paying about 1/3 of cost , as for Bar cars they will probably disappear as soon as Malloy administration gets the heave ho, his popularity equals Chris Christie ;-)
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Re: 60 more M8 Cars to be Ordered (Was: FIRST CALL For Beer!

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:04 am

The coffee service in the morning thing has been beaten to death elsewhere on this board.
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