Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby trainbrain » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:10 pm

Hoboken has 18 tracks, entirely for NJT's use, while PSNY has 21 tracks and NJT only uses half of them and shares some with Amtrak. My guess is that a lot of the trains don't have fast turnarounds, and they leave them at the platforms because there's no need to pull them out of the station to let another train discharge. For example, I took train 54 to Hoboken today, and when I got there, they had the same track that it just arrived on displayed for 1109, which wasn't scheduled for another 2 hours. Unless they took that set out and replaced it with a different train, it sat on the platform for over 2 hours.

54 was pretty crowded today, and it's a later rush hour train, compared with 48 and 52. If they have any extra equipment, it would be nice to see that train, as well as 55 in the evening lengthened to 7 cars.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby EuroStar » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:25 am

During rush hour the turnaround time at NYP tends to be 15 minutes. A set that arrives on the 1-4 tracks would be going west through the tunnels or onto the storage tracks at NYP within that time. On the through tracks when the set is going to Sunnyside they might be able to do a little better. They are nowhere close to 15 minute turns in Hoboken.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby trainbrain » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:04 am

It's better to have longer turnaround times because it makes a delay due to a late incoming train less likely. Hoboken has the space to do that, but PSNY does not. I believe turnaround times for most weekend trains are an hour at Hoboken. Weekday times can vary.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby SecaucusJunction » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:44 am

A stub end station will always need many more tracks than a through station. This was a reason why the ARC station was doomed and The reason why GCT has 100+ tracks.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby DutchRailnut » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:15 pm

GCT does not have 100 tracks unless you count each and every non platform track and loop.
it has closer to half.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby trainbrain » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:50 pm

When they build the new yard on the Port Jervis Line, they'll need more equipment to run the extra trains. Once NJT starts aggressively purging all the single level equipment, would MNCR take some of the Comet V's off NJT and use those to expand its own fleet, or would they dedicate a portion of the Shoreliner replacement order to expand the WOH fleet?
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby SecaucusJunction » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:32 pm

My heart says shoreliners but my mind says comet Vs
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby Backshophoss » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:02 pm

More likely a MN variant of the NJT Multi-Level II's cars. :wink:
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby TDowling » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:21 pm

From a non-RR employee perspective, conceivably, the 2:41pm from Hoboken to Middletown train could turn at Middletown as a revenue run back to SEC/HOB without even needing a second track built. Supposing that the set turns at 4:40, by the time it reaches Harriman the first evening westbound would already have passed and could reach double track at Sloatsburg before the second evening wb arrives. Of course, this is playing railroad chicken :wink:
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby SecaucusJunction » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:09 am

It makes a lot of sense actually. I couldn't believe there was no eastbound counterpart to the train when it started. Seemed like such a waste. Even a few minute tweet of the westbound schedule would allow it to run easier. East of suffern, it could express back on roughly the same schedule it runs now.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby trainbrain » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:42 pm

Here's the problem with that. The service to return people to the Port Jervis stations isn't good enough to warrant having 49 run as a revenue move back. The people who took that train would need to take 67 or 41 back, because they'd get in too late for 65. Both are fully local and there's a 3 hour gap between them.

I'd like to see 67 made express and run earlier, around 9:30. A new train, numbered 69 would leave Hoboken around 11:15 and run express. 41 could stay when it is.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby TDowling » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:14 pm

Metro north was thinking a while back about running an express train between 65 and 67. I don't know what happened to that proposal.

As far as running 49 back as a revenue run, how much could it possibly cost mnr to make a few stops instead of deadhead. seems to me the cost benefit analysis is favorable, even if only for people who aren't making a return trip.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby trainbrain » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:54 pm

That's different than what I was thinking of. I would like to see 67 moved up about half an hour and made express, and another express added after it numbered 69 that left at 11:15-11:30. That departure would be perfectly timed for evening sporting events and Broadway shows. Along with this, 49 would make a revenue run back. Also, I realized that it is also possible to run 49 all the way to Port Jervis and still get the set back to Hoboken. It would run on approximately the same schedule as weekend train 80, and meet 51 at Otisville, 53 at Campbell Hall, and 55 at Harriman. It would make it to Sloatsburg before 57-59-61 come 15 minutes apart.

Not sure where they'd get the set for an additional late evening express. It would probably have to be a deadhead that was before 68 using the set from 51 or 55.
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Re: Scheduling question for Port Jervis Line

Postby pnaw10 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:24 pm

I'm not as familiar with the logistics of the PJL as others here, but are these myriad proposals considering labor requirements?

It's not simply a matter of whether the trains will make it to "Siding X" in time for a train in the opposite direction to pass. Real-life schedulers also have to consider federal "Hours of Service" laws (and perhaps any union-mandated items) that limit how many hours engineers and other train crew members can work in any given day. The federal laws put the responsibility on the railroad -- not the employees -- to make sure these limits are followed. There are some rather hefty fines if a railroad should violate Hours of Service.

Long-distance railroads (Amtrak, freight trains) are accustomed to putting people up in hotels as needed, to give employees their mandatory rest period before returning to work... but I would imagine local/commuter railroads like NJT and MNR generally avoid that expense, since their territories (and train runs) are short enough to get people back to their home terminal before their shifts end.

So, the fact that "Train X" only makes it part way up the line to "Station Y" before deadheading back to another terminal, might not be as "random" as it seems or due entirely to ridership -- it could be partly due to labor-related requirements. I don't know for sure, but just throwing it out there as a possible factor.
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