Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby TDowling » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:39 am

I really don't understand why it is necessary to add another yard when one exists in campbell hall. This seems like the perfect midpoint. I realize government bureaucracy seems to stultify any kind of agreement between NS and MNR but this is really a waste of taxpayers money IMHO.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby rhallock » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:39 pm

The Campbell Hall yard is used entirely for freight service now. It would have to be expanded considerably to service passenger trains. There was a proposal to start trains in Walden and have them go via CH, but I would be very surprised to see that happen.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby TDowling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:02 pm

How much freight does the yard possibly hold though? Every time I see it on the train it is empty.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby Backshophoss » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:00 pm

Is Campbell Hall yard the staging location for the NS local freight?
Does MN use a track or 2 in that yard for MW equipment staging?
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby SemperFidelis » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:17 pm

Just my rather uninformed 2 cents but...

Since every tuime I ride the line the train really starts filling up at Middletown, wouldn't it make sense to put the yard there and have as many more trains as possible serve the city and then build a decently long passing siding somewhere east of there to facilitate meets?

I guess Middletown is the first station heading east where taking the train is somewhat time competetive because west of there every train I've ridden is not well populated.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby TDowling » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:28 pm

Yes it would be beneficial. But is it really worth spending hundreds of millions of taxpayers dollars to do that
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby SemperFidelis » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:03 pm

In my opinion, yes, but I don't want to get started on politics and taxes. I can admit that I am well off the reservation (mostly to the left, but sometimes to the right) on most issues.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby SecaucusJunction » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:34 am

I'd assume MTA has to either build a new yard themselves or pay NS/MNJ to purchase the yard in Campbell Hall... and that's only if they would be willing to sell any of it. I believe the H70 pulls through the yard every night to wye the power. I've also thought that Middletown would be a great location for a yard, but I'm not sure if they'll go out that far. If they could ever come up with the funds, a spur to the airport and the town of Newburgh would seem to be a good option. I know when they had studied it in the past, the ridership numbers projection from that town were pretty good, especially with the future of the ferry to Beacon in question. Most likely more than they are willing to spend though.
I think it may be possible that NJ Transit might not be the perfect, infallible organization that most people assume it is.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby TDowling » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:12 am

A spur on a line that is hardly ever used is pretty ludicrous. I take it you are referring to the Stewart airport connection which is already served by ShortLine and the Port Authority.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby EuroStar » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:36 am

There is no viable right of way to get to the airport from the existing tracks. Random developments have blocked any route that splits after Salisbury Mills/Cornwall. Good luck buying those out even if the topology is favorable for rail right of way. One can try using the I-87 right of way splitting from the existing route before Salisbury Mills/Cornwall, but in places the residential development seems so close to the highway that I doubt that there is enough width for the tracks and the eventual 3 lanes each way highway. Interestingly enough there is an existing rail freight spur ending just south of route 94 that might take you into the city of Newburgh, passing through New Windsor, that might actually provide some ridership to justify some investment. Most likely though the idea is to create a big parking lot at Stewart and count that as the Newburgh station. Even though that is Newburgh, I doubt there is any place for a big parking lot downtown.

For maximum bang on the buck, if the MTA is ever hoping to get any spur to Stewart, the yard should be south of the split of the rail right of way and the I-87 right of way. That unfortunately is east of substantial portion of the current ridership.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby Ridgefielder » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:46 pm

EuroStar wrote:Even though that is Newburgh, I doubt there is any place for a big parking lot downtown.

Downtown Newburgh got pretty much bombed-out by 1960's-vintage "urban renewal." There's probably room enough for all the parking you'd need.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby CentralValleyRail » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:50 am

How many tracks do you really need? 2 or 3 at the most especially since you have the full yard in PJ already. 2 or 3 tracks can easily hold 4-6 trains. There is definitely some area in the Salisbury Mills area or just north of the Harriman Station. There is some demand from Middletown, Campbell Hall (not much). Salisbury Mills and South (East) is the heavy traffic. Goshen Area is full of old birds that will never pass a yard there.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:26 pm

While the consistent commuter patronage probably begins at the Middletown-Town of Walkill Station, it's still far enough to the west that more people living in Middletown and the surrounding communities probably use the bus when they go into the city. In fact, if you live in lets say Goshen and you want to take the train, you might as well just drive to Harriman. Even if you are in Middletown, especially since that town is probably spread out, it's probably better to drive to Harriman. At Salisbury Mills-Cornwall Station, the right of way is literally a straight shot down through Orange County and into NJ. Harriman is probably the busiest station on the Pt. Jervis Line, given its easy access to 17, 87, and 6. I was in Harriman this summer and noticed new condos going up near the station. That will help fuel the ridership.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby CentralValleyRail » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Harriman is definitely the busiest station look at MNRR's numbers for it. Nearly doubles every other station.
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Re: Port Jervis Potential Yard Locations

Postby Backshophoss » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:58 pm

The best"bang" for the taxpayer's buck would be to buy Campbell Hall yard,with NS/MNJ retaining what little trackage they need to
do interchange work.
MN uses the yard as a base for the signal dept and track dept,and station maintaince(B+B dept).
Tends to be cheaper to rehab an existing yard then to build new.
The "branch" to Stewart Airport might be a long term goal,but will have to wait till after ESA is finally done,
so as to have MTA Capital Construction avaible to work on that.
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