M8's and Shore Line East

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:59 pm

Alright children...last I checked, toasters aren't M8's...

On topic plzkthxbai.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby Jeff Smith » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:07 pm

Oh it was on topic LOL. I was talking in lieu of M8's, which both Jaap and I agree may not make it to SLE. However, F-Line has given as good a reason as to why it would be unnecessary to do so. I was merely pointing out the possible, not probably or recommended in case CtDOT wanted to buy some more stuff on eBay.

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby ACeInTheHole » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:02 pm

Jeff Smith wrote:Jaap's going to kill me for bringing it into this thread, but I'm partially agreeing with what he's said in the past. With diesel sets going to the Hartford line, why not just do what CtDOT does best and pick up some cast-offs that run under the wire, i.e. AEM-7 toasters? As Jaap has pointed out elsewhere, there is now a shortage of coaches to match the power; Comet III's would be a possibility. Forget the M8's; even with the extra ordered, the retirement of the (99%) prior EMU fleet of 2-4-6's didn't leave enough for what I'm now going to call WoNH (west of NH). The M8's may test there, but it seems like there's just not enough to fulfill full SLE service levels, NLN serve notwithstanding.

Speaking of NLN, Comet III's could be a hi platform solution with a center door and end doors, which would work on curves.

Bonus: they can be used for NYP runs when that finally happens. Of course, by then they'll probably be dead, but for now they could work on the relatively short SLE runs rather than the whole NEC runs. And bookend them so if one craps out, you can MU them for motive/HEP, and not worry about push-pull.

The Comet IIIs are done. They were not moved during Sandy and they were trashed accordingly.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby Steamboat Willie » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:17 pm

Believe me, even though we have some M-2's in service the railroad does not want them rolling around "out of cycle." MN wants the M-2's to cover specific trains while the M-8's to cover all remaining service. With how big the schedule is right now and the average shop count, I don't see them having the surplus to dedicate to SLE service but I could be wrong.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby ebtmikado » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:30 pm

Steamboat Willie wrote:Believe me, even though we have some M-2's in service the railroad does not want them rolling around "out of cycle." MN wants the M-2's to cover specific trains while the M-8's to cover all remaining service. With how big the schedule is right now and the average shop count, I don't see them having the surplus to dedicate to SLE service but I could be wrong.


Since 24 M-8s were bought by Connecticut SPECIFICALLY for SLE service, it looks like Metro North will have a wee bit of a problem.

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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:34 pm

not really, but I won't bore you with details. even ConnDot realizes they bought about 100 cars less than they needed.
If they take the 24 away , the trains will run short, and nothing MN can do about it. they do not have to supply cars.
Conndot does however.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:47 pm

Conndot could re-allocate the 24 cars to SLE but it would mean 4800 (2 trips) minimum per rush hour in standees on GCT service.
I like to see who the hero is in ConnDOT, to make that call...
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby SEPTA Fan 235 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:28 pm

Several ex- AEM-7ACs are for sale. Is it possible that when the diesels are moved to the Hartford line, AEM-7ACs could be used with ex NJT comets being phased out aswell? However, if the AEM-7ACs aren't purchased soon, they'll go to scrap.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby NH2060 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:52 pm

Nope the ol' "Toasters" wouldn't have a chance with ConnDOT. Maintenance and parts availability issues don't make them an option (inspite of the fact that Amtrak crews do run SLE). And AFAIK all the NJT Comets being retired are marked for the scrapper. When service to Hartford and Springfield begins in 2018(?) there will be *just* enough motive power and rolling stock for both SLE and NHHS even without the M8s so there won't be as pressing a need for extra equipment for SLE as once thought. Expansion of the initial HFD Line schedule will likely necessitate additional motive power and coaches (which would come from the current SLE pool). If any other coaching stock comes into play it'll be either transfers from the MNRR push-pull fleet (likely the most recent centerdoor cars) or new multilevels. And new locos might not even be a factor in the near future with more or less complete overhauls of the GP40-2H and P40 fleets; Amtrak's possible retirement of their Genesis fleet opens even more opportunities for commuter loco rebuilds as well depending on what ConnDOT wants to do. It has been said that they would like to acquire new locomotives in 5-10 years or so, but things can change.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:57 pm

SEPTA Fan 235 wrote:Several ex- AEM-7ACs are for sale. Is it possible that when the diesels are moved to the Hartford line, AEM-7ACs could be used with ex NJT comets being phased out aswell? However, if the AEM-7ACs aren't purchased soon, they'll go to scrap.


No. No, no, no. This gets brought up time and again for both SLE and the MBTA Providence Line, time and again with the AEM-7's, and time and again with NJT's stored ALP-44's. These agencies don't have the in-house expertise to maintain old push-pull electrics, and Amtrak is not going to gift them a service & support contract for battered old bodies with dwindling parts supply. The AEM-7's are pretty thoroughly cooked. That's why Amtrak's only been able to scramble a few working Remans for SEPTA.


SLE's going to run M8's. The only question is when does it start running M8's, and whether it'll just M8's to Old Saybrook for the first few years while the sparser New London schedule lingers on with the diesel excess the starter Hartford Line schedule won't need until several years of scale-up later. Nothing else, and definitely nobody else's old electric refuse.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby GirlOnTheTrain » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:46 am

The topic is M8's on Shore Line East, not "CDOT buys more beaten to hell junk from Amtrak...
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby eubnesby » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:01 am

Out of curiosity, is there any future possibility of a new order for more M8s? Even ignoring the SLE, it seems like more will be needed.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:10 am

Penn Station Access will be the trigger for an M8A or M10 supplemental order, not SLE. Gov. Malloy has mentioned--without any specifics--the need to purchase more cars. But there's nothing present-day to read into that statement. Any service plan for New Haven-Penn can't take focus until the ESA boondoggle has an actual ending date and LIRR's post-ESA service plan takes shape, and that won't happen under the current administrations in either the New York or Connecticut state houses.
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby Backshophoss » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:39 pm

It will take time to recreate the M-8 production at Kawasaki factory at Lincoln Ne.
Better off designing the M-10 now!
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Re: M8's and Shore Line East

Postby DutchRailnut » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:06 pm

they have been working on them for two years now.
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