WALK Bridge South Norwalk (Replacement, Status, etc.)

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WALK Bridge South Norwalk (Replacement, Status, etc.)

Postby NH2060 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:06 am

Who he should be meeting with is the DOT and those in charge of the state's bank account and unless he does this meeting may not do much:
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/poli ... 64721.html
Fair use quote:
“This is now the second major failure in two weeks, leaving thousands of passengers stranded and causing unacceptable delays. Let me be clear, this is outrageous," Malloy said in a statement on Friday. "In speaking with MTA and Metro-North, my administration has stressed that every procedure, protocol and engineering solution must get the immediate attention of the most qualified team of experts. It is of the upmost importance that these operating, maintenance, alternative service and customer protocols be completely critiqued and that near term solutions be found to ensure reliable service for Connecticut commuters.
Last edited by Jeff Smith on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: alter thread title to accurately represent direction of thread / money availability.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:18 am

gone be interesting in SoNo if they ever build a new bridge, historic buildings on both sides, so something is gone have to give.
on one side historic district, and a new parking garage. on other side a historic factory, maritime center and the city sewage plant.
ohhh boy this will be fun.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby runningwithscalpels » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:56 pm

Seems to me old Danny boy is taking a page out of Bloomie's playbook. Latch on to what the public hates the most and get any sound bite (and unnecessary uh's and um's) in that he can. (Likely he also figures "If everyone sees me crap on Metro North with them they'll forget about all the other ways I've screwed the state come November.")

I hope someone informed him that he and his predecessors bear a lot of the blame for this.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby Backshophoss » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:45 pm

Wonder how many times this was shoved on to the back burner in Hartford,this was a long time coming,now it's
a diaster waiting to happen,the entire City of Norwalk will get effected if Walk fails again to the point of useless scrap metal.
There's no easy way around it,or room to build.

(ConnDOT,It might be a good idea to take control of the Maybrook from HRRC real soon,and fast! :wink: )
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby NH2060 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:41 am

DutchRailnut wrote:gone be interesting in SoNo if they ever build a new bridge, historic buildings on both sides, so something is gone have to give.
on one side historic district, and a new parking garage. on other side a historic factory, maritime center and the city sewage plant.
ohhh boy this will be fun.

Backshophoss wrote:Wonder how many times this was shoved on to the back burner in Hartford,this was a long time coming,now it's
a diaster waiting to happen,the entire City of Norwalk will get effected if Walk fails again to the point of useless scrap metal.
There's no easy way around it,or room to build.

Would they really need to build a new span next to the existing one? Unless the approaches are in need of replacement or serious rehab work AFAIK it's just the swing span itself that needs replacement or major fixing. And even if the whole bridge did indeed need replacement couldn't the approaches be replaced 2 tracks at a time (if the approach bridges are 2 track spans) while the old swing span is swapped out for a new one? The latter was done @ the Third Avenue Bridge in the Bronx about 10 years ago so it should work for WALK.

If that was the proposal no doubt the city would be rightly so up in arms about it. It would require essentially reconfiguring/demolishing/rebuilding an entire section of the downtown area. The only way I think such a project could even begin to be justified is if the curves between the South Norwalk station and the bridge as well as between the bridge and the East Norwalk station were to be straightened out for higher speeds as long as there would be new approaches built to the bridge on both sides.
runningwithscalpels wrote:Seems to me old Danny boy is taking a page out of Bloomie's playbook. Latch on to what the public hates the most and get any sound bite (and unnecessary uh's and um's) in that he can. (Likely he also figures "If everyone sees me crap on Metro North with them they'll forget about all the other ways I've screwed the state come November.")

I hope someone informed him that he and his predecessors bear a lot of the blame for this.

I'm afraid part of the problem is that more than enough commuters, taxpayers, etc. honestly don't know and/or understand just how old and worn out how many pieces their state's infrastructure are. Furthermore they only get an idea of the situation when something like this goes down. And when it comes to those in public office they either might not understand themselves or -if they do- they know they may have a hard time explaining things like this to the general public (non-railroads/railfans for example). On top of that, explaining why millions upon millions need to be spent on projects that don't exactly result in "Oooh" and Ahhh".
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby NH2060 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:58 am

Malloy to seek federal funding to help cover the cost of a replacement bridge:
http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Mal ... 540470.php
Please allow brief quote:
In a best-case scenario, Malloy said, the replacement project could take as few as three years. But that's contingent upon the federal money coming through. The state doesn't have any other sources of funding to pay for the bridge replacement, the DOT said when it announced the federal grant application

MNR will also be pursuing replacement of the bridge:
http://www.mta.info/news-walk-bridge-no ... ping-multi
Please allow brief quote:
Teams from the Connecticut Department of Transportation (ConnDOT) and Metro-North will conduct an operation review of procedures at the bridge to minimize future risk of failure; the teams will work together and are expected to report their findings and recommendations by mid-July.
Over the long term, both parties will push for Federal funding to allow for the replacement of the bridge.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby Ridgefielder » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:17 am

Backshophoss wrote:(ConnDOT,It might be a good idea to take control of the Maybrook from HRRC real soon,and fast! :wink: )

I was pondering this, and I have a serious question (so please everyone, don't flame me out or start yelling "foamer"! :-D ): if it were to be absolutely necessary because of, say, a catastrophic failure of one of the moveable bridges between South Norwalk and Devon, how quickly could the Maybrook between Derby Jct. and Danbury be put in shape for passenger service? I'm talking hypothetically, money-is-no-object here-- Feds throwing money around b/c having the Corridor severed would create a transportation emergency in S New England sort of thing.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby NH2060 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:47 am

Tis a legitimate question sir so no judgement here :-)

The only ones who would benefit from having the Maybrook upgraded in case of emergencies, etc. -but who would benefit greatly- would be Amtrak and P&W as their trains have nowhere else to go and carry up to several states worth of passengers and cargo. MNR -as seen after the derailment last year- can "get by" on bus shuttles where there's a service gap. Amtrak service however simply grinds to a halt. And for that matter it affects travelers far outside the gap in service, including those going to/coming from eastern CT, RI, and MA who might also need to travel within that area. So in spite of having the trains be an extra 90 minutes or so late due to detouring via Danbury and Devon at least they'll still run.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby shadyjay » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:05 pm

There's a pic in the book "In the Shore Line Shadow" that shows an Amtrak Turbotrain detouring up the Danbury branch. Too bad most detour routes are no longer options and the solution as of late is to just run a bus for any detours.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:44 pm

walk bridge video http://youtu.be/QHNi-rWeXVM
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:53 pm

shadyjay wrote:There's a pic in the book "In the Shore Line Shadow" that shows an Amtrak Turbotrain detouring up the Danbury branch. Too bad most detour routes are no longer options and the solution as of late is to just run a bus for any detours.


with no signal system and a track speed of 20 mph at best even if line were passable it would take 4 hours to go from Devon to South Norwalk, so lets drop the fantasy Island stuff. it would take two days just to get crews re-qualified and then they could between all of them probably move 6 trains a day !!
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby dowlingm » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Noting the "we don't have money for this" line. Is it wrong to think that if this was a road bridge, money would be found with other projects deferred - some of them public transportation related?
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:33 pm

maybe but Mianus river bridge collapse on I-95 years ago proved otherwise
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby Noel Weaver » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:50 am

Several things here: There was a problem quite a few years ago somewhere between South Norwalk and Devon but I don't recall exactly what happened. A couple of through trains were detoured via Danbury and it worked out, not great but it worked. The problems today are track conditions which are probably either 10 MPH or exempt and if exempt no passenger trains can run on them, lack of signals which also makes it more difficult to detour trains, lack of qualified engineers which is a show stopper.
The way I see it the State of Connecticut takes nearly all of the blame for this situation. The bridge is so old and obsolete that it is not funny, boaters, even sailboats with one or two people just out for a spin take priority to trains carrying thousands of people on them, something wrong here. Too bad the state did not see this coming years ago and could have done something before things got this bad. I have to wonder if there is still any commercial use of the Norwalk River at this point, if not maybe the bridge just needs to be closed. I suspect structurally the bridge might have some years left if it was no longer a movable bridge.
Dutch is probably more up on the geography in Norwalk than I am at this point but one solution could be, hold your breath, build a tunnel under the whole mess, avoid the bridge, the junction switches and the curve, build an underground station for through trains to stop at (South Norwalk Under, just like Boston), cost would be high but replacing the bridge will also be high. You might have to keep the bridge for freight trains but in that case it could be kept open except for an immediate freight move or the freight trains could borrow an electric locomotive to run them through a tunnel. The cost would be very high but I wonder how much higher than a new bridge and maybe less disruption too. They could keep the line to the station and use that station for trains terminating or originating there as well as Danbury Branch trains.
In any event something will have to be done before much longer and the ball is in Connecticut's corner.
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Re: Gov. Malloy Calls For "Crisis Summit" After Bridge Probl

Postby runningwithscalpels » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:54 am

What bearing will the fact that the bridge is on the National Register of Historic Places have on reconstruction efforts? Obviously it needs to be fixed or replaced, but will that designation create even more of a headache?
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