3rd Track for White Plains

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3rd Track for White Plains

Postby s4ny » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:16 am

I am surprised that there isn't a 3rd track at the White Plains station.

It must create a bit of a scheduling issue. When passengers switch between southbound
express and local trains at White Plains, with only 2 tracks there is no place for a
northbound train.

I do realize that the North White Plains station has 3 tracks and locals often sit there
waiting for the southbound express.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby DutchRailnut » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:21 pm

not enough property for third track and not enough money for all associated work
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby truck6018 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:24 pm

s4ny wrote:I do realize that the North White Plains station has 3 tracks and locals often sit there
waiting for the southbound express.


Track three is not a through track and is only used to bring trains in and out of the yard. Occasionally trains will be turned there too. Tracks one and two are through tracks.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:37 pm

Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby Backshophoss » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:04 pm

There was room for a Baggage/Express siding for a freight Elevator structure to bring baggage/express/mail to /from street level.
There was never the room for a third track on the elevated structure thru downtown White Plains
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby truck6018 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:56 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:.... although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line.


The off peak trains that currently turn at Crestwood are only doing that for the duration of the White Plains station project.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby Ridgefielder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.

There's a lengthy discussion of this elsewhere in the forum but the bottom line is the NYC future-proofed most of the Lower Harlem back in the 1910's. There's room for a 3rd track on most of the ROW from Crestwood to NWP. The exceptions are the bridges over the Bronx River and the stretch through the Scarsdale station, where the NB platform occupies the space for the third track.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby Union Tpke » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:38 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.


This project was included in the Twenty-Year Capital Needs Assessment which is a wishlist of project submitted by the different MTA agencies.
http://web.mta.info/mta/capital/pdf/TYN2015-2034.pdf Page 26
These investments include the initial effort to expand the Harlem line between Crestwood and North White Plains and design of a new Woodlawn flyover at the junction of the Harlem and New Haven lines in the Bronx.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:28 pm

I wonder if it would be possible for the northbound platform at Scarsdale to be moved back to accommodate an extension of the third track? I'm sure that that could happen eventually. If the third track ever gets extended north of Crestwood, at the very least, I would want to see it go as far as just south of White Plains Station. It sounds like even the stretch between White Plains and North White Plains Station, there is a lack of room for a third track.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby DutchRailnut » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:38 am

what part of MTA does not own enough property for third track do you guys not understand ?
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby hs3730 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:22 am

Regarding Scarsdale... tunnel the 3rd track under the existing two. There's room at both ends for a portal. No need for property acquisition.

White Plains would be much more difficult to expand, as whatever 3rd track will need to be a platform track.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby kitchin » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:45 am

Tunnels are not so cheap. Palo Alto, CA, has been discussing this as well viewtopic.php?f=60&t=169132 Building over to create new property, like Chicago and Atlanta did a century ago, is the time-tested way. That's rarely done now outside of, say, Manhattan. Building over goes back to the mud dwelling days!
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby DutchRailnut » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 am

Metro north does not own air rights over any of railroad and tunneling drops you under water level of river next to track.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby kitchin » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:34 am

Was New Rochelle station part of some big land deal in the 1990s? About all I know is that Amtrak moved there from Rye about seven years beforehand. Not something Scarsdale would want I'd guess, but maybe White Plains. Seriously spitballing here, but thought it'd be worth mentioning sometimes MN is not the only party with an interest.
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Re: 3rd Track for White Plains

Postby UpperHarlemLine4ever » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:48 pm

Not going to go through this again but NYC made provisions for 4 tracks all the way to NWP. World War 1 got in the way. Everyone keeps on talking about Scarsdale. The northbound platform was extended all the way out (have pictures) and north of the station, solil from the construction of the BRP was dumped there. So thete is room for a 3rd Track. As far as from WP to NWP that too was designed for 4 tracks. The bridge over Cemetery Rd shows room. The remnants of track lay to the right of track 1 and there is a bumper on the ground north of WP. Track 3 in NWP used to be track 5 which went to below Cemetery Rd. The WP train station had 4 trackways, 2 of which were used, SB local track and NB express track.
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