How to Identify Red Line Stock

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How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby joshg1 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:13 pm

The subway car with the red stipe- it's a bit of tip off.

But seriously, Sunday's Globe article on subway maintenance reminded me the time in the early '90s that I first saw a what my friend and I termed a Ashmont train. We usually rode from Quincy Adams "hey- give me another token", but one day entered Kendal and found what we termed a retro 4 car train, silver grey, not white, with solid plastic straps. Are these old cars still in service? I've never seen one in my infrequent travel. I didn't Wikipedia helpful as they don't mention interior and 4 vs 6 car trains. Just scratching a memory itch.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:31 pm

01500/01600/01700 are all virtually indentical. All have Westinghouse DC cam control and are painted aluminum. Number position on 01700s in slightly different position of bulkhead. 01500s and 01700s are single-ended single units, but operate as pairs in service (01500s were once dual-ended units). Delivered 1969-88.

01800s stand out as the stainless cars with LEDs and a "modern" look. Built by Bombardier 1993-94 with GE AC traction.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby joshg1 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:52 pm

What about the interiors? I've only seen a few vinyl hanging straps since then. Were 01500 and 01600 interiors renovated?
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby F-line to Dudley via Park » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:24 pm

joshg1 wrote:What about the interiors? I've only seen a few vinyl hanging straps since then. Were 01500 and 01600 interiors renovated?


Identical except for the ends. The 17's don't have the huge ATO box by the cab doors because they were built straight from the factory to work with cab signals. The box was an add-on to the 15's/16's in their midlife overhauls. Some of the old cars also have slightly altered seating at the ends where seats were hastily rearranged at an angle to make room for a wheelchair spot. Can't recall if it's only the 15's or only the 16's that do that.

15's/16's also have lighted car numbers on the exterior of the cars, while 17's have painted car numbers. 15's and 17's have sets of red marker lights between units because they're built single-ended, while married-pair 16's don't.

Think that's it. There's very few other cues to tell them apart.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby sery2831 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:31 am

The easiest way to tell the different type of Silverbirds and 01700s apart is the numbers on the exterior. The 01500s have number boards at each end of the cars. The 01600s have number boards at one end. And the 01700s do not have number boards and are not Silverbirds, they were delivered in the scheme they are in now.

The interiors are all very close as mentioned above. The 01700 have controls on the non cab ends under panels that open up.

Also the 01500s have head lights/marker lights and destination sign windows on each end. The 01700 have head lights/markers lights, but no destination sign windows on the non cab ends. The 01600s have nothing on the non can ends.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby Gerry6309 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:09 am

There is one more, obvious, feature which distinguishes the three classes.

01500s have a large window at the No. 2 (non cab) end, which is the same size as the cab window at the other end.

01600s have a smaller window which is close to the adjacent window.

01700s have the same size window as the 01600s, but it is closer to the end of the car.

Besides being stainless steel, the 01800s have four sets of doors per side, while the others have three sets. The doors on the 1800s are wider, while the windows between the doors are much narrower.

No. 5 cars (01400-01491) also have four sets of doors per side, but they are outside hung and the windows are even wider than those on the 01500-01700s. They also have "fish-belly" sides which taper downward between the trucks. the last two cars delivered (01490-01491) had cast fibreglass ends

All older cars had three single panel doors per side.

No. 1 cars (0600-0639) had pocket doors, fish-belly sides, wood window sash and evenly spaced windows.

No. 2 cars (0640-0659) had pocket doors, straight sides, wooden sash and 2-1-2 window spacing.

No. 3 cars (0660-0694) had pocket doors, fish-belly sides, brass sash and even window spacing.

No. 4 cars (0695-0754) have outside hung doors,fish-belly sides, brass sash and even window spacing.

No. 5 cars are in work service and at Seashore Trolley Museum

No. 4 cars are at Seashore only

Nos. 1, 2 and 3 cars are found only in photographs, none survive.

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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby Finch » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:56 pm

I don't believe I saw this above...

The 1700's have black rubber access panels (for emergency door pulls) on the exterior of the car, near the lower corners of the side doorways. This is one of the easiest ways to tell them apart from the No. 1 cars (1500/1600). The door pulls are easily visible from far away too.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby 3rdrail » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:09 pm

The door faux (fake) panels on the original 1 through 4's are all different as original (they were changed sometimes as they were replaced). If you're looking at a photo and can't see the number, it's a way to tell which order it was (if it's got a "fish belly").
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby jonnhrr » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:45 pm

Interesting that 0699 has no 3rd rail shoe beam on the near truck. Perhaps it was just delivered and not installed yet.
Given how shiny it is, must be "right out of the box".

When I rode them they were pretty dingy, would have been nice to ride them when new like this. But that would make me over 100 yrs old :)

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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby 3rdrail » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:29 pm

Good observation, Jon ! Fresh out of the box from Osgood Bradley. As a group, these are my favorite cars. I rode them as a kid also, and I also remember them as many different shades of a motled brown/green. In 1960, they spruced up a bunch in orange/grey that were quite spiffy ! I always thought that these cars had a lot of personality. They groaned and roared and were prone to a lot of lateral movement. Air release was often heard from the compressors at high speed. @ 1960, I recall entering either a #1 or #2 that still had the old bulkhead in it from its smoking car days. As a cigar aficionado, I would have loved to have enjoyed a nice Arturo Fuente Torpedo between Harvard and Ashmont !
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby CRail » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:19 pm

joshg1 wrote:...found what we termed a retro 4 car train, silver grey, not white, with solid plastic straps.

I thought I had this down until I reread what's quoted above. The 015/01600s were silver originally (which has been stated), but I don't believe this lasted into the 90s as I don't recall ever seeing one (I was pretty young, but my memory of the red line from that time period is still pretty vivid). I do remember riding 01400s, I remember as a young kid thinking doors hung to the exterior of the carbody was a bad idea, but liked watching the arm pull them open.

ANYWAYS I was going to say that you rode the 01400 "Bluebirds" (named for being blue because of their original paint scheme which consisted of "Commonwealth colors") based on your describing "solid plastic straps," assuming you were referring to the hand straps which weren't plastic but were solid, as opposed to the rubbery flimsy ones used now. However, I then noticed you also described them as silver (I assume you mean on the outside), which those never were. So I'm kinda confused.

Gerry's information makes for a pretty good fleet guide. Two more characteristics that differentiate the true silvers (015/01600s) from the 01700s are that the original Silverbirds have a ribbed roof while the 01700s' roofs are smooth and that the indicator lights on the side of the carbody (Red: Pilot light [Door Indicator], Blue: Propulsion Fault light, Yellow: Snowbrake indicator) are noticeably larger on the 01700s than they are on the Silvers.
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How to Identify Red Line Stock by the Cabs

Postby Robert Paniagua » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:04 pm

I can also determined which is which by looking at the cabs (particularly the 015/015/01700s. First, the 015/01600s' cabs are slightly tighter (like NYCT's B Division R44s) than the 01700s which have a much larger cabs similar to New York Subway's B Division R46. And therefore, the Evacuchair could not be placed on the 015/01600s cars. The 01700s cabs can fit in the Evacuchairs in them. Also, they both have a "dash control console" and the M/P (which means motorperson) can easily access the main controllers and radio and it's Speed Monitor. A slight difference I caught, was that the speed indicator/ATO display on the 015/01600s is slightly higher and the OPTO Microphone sits under it. While the 01700s' ATO Speed Monitor is a bit lower (so the OPTO PA Microphone sits above it) but not touching the dash console.

Both of these models sport a sideways turn Master Controller Handle otherwise known as Cineston, which they are just that. Notably enough, NYCT’s R44 and R46s are also Cineston-Equipped MCH’s.

Another distinct feature of these 015/015/01700 models is that they are dash-console equipped providing easy access to most controls atop the dash console. And both of the ATO Boxes are a high cabinet enabling the M/P to adjust the switches accordingly as nessecary, and both have door openers controls manufactured by Westcode USA formely Vapor Heating Ltd.
The Railfan Windows are a big difference. If you wanna see out the ends, you better hope to get an 01700, since they have a larger RFW than the 015/01600, which essentially, you cant get any good views of the ends, they are way too small after their Mid Life conversion in 1986.

01400s and 01800s
First, the 01400s were built nearly identical to both the NYCT’s B Division R10s and R32s, in fact, the 01400s interiors were very similar to the classic (pre Rehab) R32, but these are 9 feet longer than the R32s. Unlike all other red Line Rolling stock, the 01400s lacked the dash control console and in stead sported a mere control stand like the R10s and 32s. But the 01400s cabs were full width for ATO purposes instead of the original corner cab plan so that these could go to Braintree by the time ATO was debuted in 1980. The 01400s RFW was akin to the ones of the Orange line 01200s with the ATO completely in the cab and none sticking out into the customer cabin thus enabling me to see out the ends especially in the forward direction when watching/recording (on camera) the M/P and operating the Cineston MCH and its Control Stand.

Now, on the 01800s, the cabs are just as long as the 01700s and they also have a dash control console, although the slide controller hand le located is off to the right, which is an unsuitable place since it’s essentially impossible to use the SCH with a left hand, they should have placed the Slide MCH in the middle of the dash console but below the display panels right in front of the Motorperson. They also accommodate the Evacuchairs and they are mounted on the motorinstructor ‘s (left) side RFW on the even numbered cars only thus taking away the end view although the odd #’d cars do not have it. They also need a new seat replacement since their seats are falling apart thus forcing train crews to use ad-cards so sit safely while moving the trains. Also, the OPTO PA Microphone is seated right atop the middle of the dash console

And on a side note, I wanted to add something regarding the difference betweeen Manufaturing years and delivery years, the 015/01600s were built in early 1969 through early 1970 (same time as TTC's H2s) and delivered late 69 through late 70. the 01700s however, were actually manufactured and everyone at MBTA though. The manu year is not 1988, thats when they were delivered. Delivery dates were from 1987 through early 1989. However the 01700s were manufactured as early as August 1986 and finished around April 1987. However there were some long delays getting them into passenger service, and thats why they didnt get iin till later.

The 01800s were actually manufactured as early as Jan 1993 and completed by December of that year, but most of them werent delivered until 1994 because of slight delays.

So, the manufacturing years of the cars are as follows:
015/1600s 1969/early 70
UTDC 01700s 1986-87
BBD 01800s 1993 only, all 86 were finished by Jan 1, '94
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby 3rdrail » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:29 pm

Drawing depicting 01400's and original GMC "New Look" busses for the MTA, both in original paint. The 01400's "Commonwealth" colors were supposedly picked by the public in a contest but in actuality, were more of a gold than yellow at their mid-band treatment. 1962
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock

Postby Gerry6309 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Tom McLernons two great achievements:

The 200 series buses and the 01400s. Both stand near the top of the all time worst list!

The 200s used air operated fireboxes salvaged from the trackless trolleys they replaced. On the buses' higher air pressure they were deafening! nd the only GMC buses in Boston lacking standee windows.

The 01400s rattled from the day they were delivered. They were stifling in the summer and frigid in the winter.
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Re: How to Identify Red Line Stock by the Cabs

Postby R36 Combine Coach » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:18 pm

Robert Paniagua wrote:First, the 01400s were built nearly identical to both the NYCT’s B Division R10s and R32s, in fact, the 01400s interiors were very similar to the classic (pre Rehab) R32, but these are 9 feet longer than the R32s. Unlike all other red Line Rolling stock, the 01400s lacked the dash control console and in stead sported a mere control stand like the R10s and 32s.

The R27/30s would be a better analogy to the 01400s as there were alloy steel (not stainless) and were in "semi-permanent" configuration (each car with a coupler at both ends).
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