CLF Lawsuit over transit projects

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CLF Lawsuit over transit projects

Postby octr202 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:47 am

From this morning's Globe:

Suits look to force transit upgrades
Plaintiffs say state reneged on deal

By Anthony Flint, Globe Staff | January 12, 2005

An environmental advocacy group will urge a federal judge today to make sure the state expands the transit system, as required under an agreement that paved the way for the Big Dig, and will call for new tolls on highways to pay for the projects.


The whole story: http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/01/12/suits_look_to_force_transit_upgrades/
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Postby trainhq » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:48 am

This has been in the works awhile. I don't know what they think will
come of it. The best outcome in my opinion would be some kind of compromise; let Arborway go as a messy waste of $$$, Bue-Red connector go because they now have Silver Line to the airport, and then take the money from that stupid Silver Line bus tunnel and use it to run
Green Line to West Medford. I think that would make the most sense.
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Postby BC Eagle » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:21 pm

trainhq wrote:This has been in the works awhile. I don't know what they think will
come of it. The best outcome in my opinion would be some kind of compromise; let Arborway go as a messy waste of $$$, Bue-Red connector go because they now have Silver Line to the airport, and then take the money from that stupid Silver Line bus tunnel and use it to run
Green Line to West Medford. I think that would make the most sense.


The Silver Lie to the airport in no way satisfies a Blue/Red connection. Especially since the Silver line won't even stop at the Airport Blue Line station!
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Postby caduceus » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:39 pm

BC Eagle wrote:The Silver Lie to the airport in no way satisfies a Blue/Red connection. Especially since the Silver line won't even stop at the Airport Blue Line station!


I think the idea is that from the Red Line, as it was, you have to transfer twice to get to the Airport. If one of the primary motivations of the Red/Blue connection was to make it one transfer, then the Silver Line does in a sense satisfy it - even if the trip is longer. At least the Silver Line will take you to the terminals...
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Postby BC Eagle » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:51 pm

caduceus wrote:
BC Eagle wrote:The Silver Lie to the airport in no way satisfies a Blue/Red connection. Especially since the Silver line won't even stop at the Airport Blue Line station!


I think the idea is that from the Red Line, as it was, you have to transfer twice to get to the Airport. If one of the primary motivations of the Red/Blue connection was to make it one transfer, then the Silver Line does in a sense satisfy it - even if the trip is longer. At least the Silver Line will take you to the terminals...


Yes, the Silver Line makes it easier for Red Line travelers to get to the Airport, but I still have two problems. First, why not have the Silver Line actually go to the Airport station. Ridership on the Silver Line is questionable to begn with. I'm sure that there are Blue Line riders who commute to the South Station area, why not make it easier by allowing a transfer to the Silver Line at the Airport? Which brings me to my second problem. Blue Line to Red Line is a 3 seat ride. When the two lines can be easily connected, why not do it? We're not talking about tunneling under the Financial District, or the Harbor here. All they have to do is extend the tunnel under Cambridge St. They're already building a new station at Charles/MGH, when would there be an easier time to do this than now?
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Postby jwhite07 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:59 pm

The T seems to think that every person who desires a connection between the Red Line and the Blue Line is trying to get the airport. Not by a long shot. And if the Silver Line really did serve as the Red-Blue connector by stopping at Airport Station (which it won't), it would only serve to provide a third (much longer) indirect connection between the Red and Blue lines. By the T's definition, there are already two Red-Blue "connectors": the Orange and Green lines.

What's the big deal? How much will a 1000' tunnel up Cambridge Street from Bowdoin to Charles cost, anyway? Far less than what has been spent and offered up as the alternative, I bet!
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Postby Ron Newman » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:08 pm

And if the Blue Line is eventually extended to Lynn, the need for a connector to Charles Street will become quite apparent.
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Postby ckb » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:40 am

The problem is, the time for all of this work on Red-Blue has come and gone. The Cambridge St. reconstruction project is (hopefully) nearing completion, and the design for the new Charles/MGH station doesn't look to include any provision at all for a Blue line transfer downstairs (although at least the fare collection is at ground level, but there really isn't easy room for stair and elevator access to a below-ground level there).

Honestly, I think the region is better served by pushing for the green line service through Somerville to West Medford. Whereas Blue Line riders can at least get downtown on rail transit, those communities have virtually no access at all. (I'd even support having this service turn around at Government Center to keep frequencies more consistent rather than running through -- although, building the western loop at Park St. would be even better. Turn another one of the BCDE lines at Park or Govt Center and you can even run nearly the same throughput ...).
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Postby CSX Conductor » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:50 am

caduceus wrote:
BC Eagle wrote:The Silver Lie to the airport in no way satisfies a Blue/Red connection. Especially since the Silver line won't even stop at the Airport Blue Line station!


I think the idea is that from the Red Line, as it was, you have to transfer twice to get to the Airport. If one of the primary motivations of the Red/Blue connection was to make it one transfer, then the Silver Line does in a sense satisfy it - even if the trip is longer. At least the Silver Line will take you to the terminals...


The trip might be longer....or it might be quicker, but you still would have to make 2 transfers to get from the Red to Blue !!!! :wink:
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Postby caduceus » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:02 pm

CSX Conductor wrote:The trip might be longer....or it might be quicker, but you still would have to make 2 transfers to get from the Red to Blue !!!! :wink:


I was talking in terms of one transfer Red -> Airport, not Red -> Blue. Also, if the Red-Blue connector was done, you'd STILL have to transfer to a shuttle to the terminals, whereas the Silver will get you directly to the terminals.

FYI, I'm in favor of the expansion (even though I don't ride regularly any more), I'm just showing that one of the arguments FOR the Red-Blue connector was supplanted by the Silver Line.

Back in 1984, I remember the double transfer (and then the walk) was the reason my parents wouldn't take the T from Revere to Harvard for the preliminary Olympic soccer games after the first one. I think that was my first-ever Red Line trip as well. Don't know if they were 1400s or not though... :-D

Off-topic, but semi-related - did Logan abandon the plans for a tram system to connect terminals? I remember that being in the early "Logan 2000" plans...
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Postby BC Eagle » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:46 pm

I think what we're trying to say is that Airport service is not, and should not, be the primary reason to connect the Red and Blue Line. There are plenty of commuting points on the Red Line, i.e. Kendall Square, MIT, Harvard Square, the South Station Area, the South Boston Waterfront, that Blue Line commuters can only access by way of a 3-seat ride. Granted, Red Line commuter access to the airport should be part of the reason, but only 1 part.
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Postby Ron Newman » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:15 pm

And for that matter, there are non-airport places on the Blue Line that we Red Line commuters would like to reach more easily: the Aquarium and surrounding downtown waterfront, the ethnic restaurants of Maverick Square, Revere Beach, maybe even someday a redeveloped Suffolk Downs or Wonderland or Lynn waterfront.

The Red-Blue connector would greatly reduce passenger load on the Green Line between Park Street and Government Center.
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