B Line stop elimination program

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Postby Porter Sq » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:46 pm

Ron there might be a problem with that on Commonwelth ave at certain stops with a traffic light at the end of the platform.That means while the train is boarding/unboarding depedning what direction it is going.Stoping traffic for at least a 1 min before the trolley goes seems to inefficent for traffic flow.If they had a device where the operatror pushes a button right before he know he is going to close the door to switch the light might be a more efficent way of doing it and where there is no platform a sensor 50-100 feet before the intersection would do the trick too switch the light in time before the trolley arrives at the intersetion.
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Postby apodino » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:27 pm

efin98 wrote:
BC Eagle wrote:
efin98 wrote:I think it's a bunch of sour grapes by those living beyond BU going on here. Why eliminate the stops that bring in a huge amound of ridership in favor of stops farther down the line that don't generate a fraction of what the BU stops generate?

So your commute is slowed by people board...Big freaking deal! Better for ridership reasons than for any other reason.


In this case, it's ridership that doesn't generate revenue. Many of these people use the B-Line outbound, but not inbound.


And it's perfectly legal and well within their right. Too bad, they have just as much right to ride the train regardless of where they are going or whether they intend to ride eastbound again.

And why not stop with the BU stops? Why not eliminate Arlington Street or Boylston Street as well? Why not Symphony and Prudential?


Oh, and if the BU students are so abusive with the stops why are so many people getting on and off at those stops while heading eastbound? Answer that with a straight face...

Judging by your screenname, this isn't sour grapes- it's full blown jealousy.


It may be in their legal right to ride for free outbound from Blandford St and beyond, but most of us end up losing out in the long run. First of all, the T loses revenue here that they would otherwise be getting without Blandford St. (unless most of them hold T passes, which makes that point moot) Because the T takes in less revenue, it means that people who pay fares get burdened even more, especially those people in other locations not on the Green Line, like Blue Line users and stuff like that. Hence the reason that POP has been debated on this forum in the past.

However, this isn't just limited to the B line. After Red Sox games especially, and I admit to being guilty of this, people going outbound on the D line simply walk to Fenway station to board the outbound train for free. Again, nothing wrong with that, but I do point out the T loses revenue on that and the rest of us bear the burden when that happens.

I do believe though that the bigger concern was on commute times as they relate to the B line. People are concerned that a combination of too many stops too close together in addition to unfavorable signals is causing the commute to be very slow. Its a combination of things. I just did some number crunching. Between Kenmore and Boston college, there are an average of 5 stops a mile. 5 stops a mile. Think about that one. That puts stations about 1000 feet apart. Park St. isn't even that close to Boylston. Additionally, there are more stops between Kenmore and BC than there are on the entire Red Line between Alewife and Braintree. I realize thats partially an apples to oranges comparison since we aren't talking about light rail on the Red Line. And with the times quoted on the T's web site, the Green Line averages 8 MPH from BC to Kenmore. 8 MPH? The Boston Marathon runners go faster than that. Obviously something has to be done to attract more riders to the B line. Stop elimination is a part of the solution. Stop consolidation is another (IE One station to replace both BU East and BU Central, which we had for a while). POP is another method, which won't work the way the T has the fare system set up, but I may have a way for the T implement something like this that I will mention in the future. We aren't going to get to a fast fast commute, but if we can get to something like say 20 minutes or so, that would be a great improvement over status quo. I know people on here are stauch defenders of status quo, and will even insult people who disagree with them, but I am of the mindset that there is always room for improvement, and just because i suggest the T should do something for improvement, doesn't mean I am insulting them in any way.

Its an interesting debate though. And people, everyone has the right to an opinion about this topic. Just because we don't agree with them, doesn't give us the right to start namecalling them. Thats how flame wars start. And I don't want flame wars on here.
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Postby BC Eagle » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:56 pm

efin98 wrote:And it's perfectly legal and well within their right. Too bad, they have just as much right to ride the train regardless of where they are going or whether they intend to ride eastbound again.


I never said it wasn't within their rights to use the T as they're doing. I argue my points because travel time on the B-Line is needlessly long, and the stops are excessively close.

efin98 wrote:And why not stop with the BU stops? Why not eliminate Arlington Street or Boylston Street as well? Why not Symphony and Prudential?


As others have pointed out, the proximity of stops on the B-Line is much closer than Park to Boylston to Arlington, or Symphony and Prudential.

efin98 wrote:Oh, and if the BU students are so abusive with the stops why are so many people getting on and off at those stops while heading eastbound? Answer that with a straight face...

Judging by your screenname, this isn't sour grapes- it's full blown jealousy.


From the inaccuracy of your answer, I take it you do not ride the B-Line on a daily basis. During the normal school/work day, inbound commuters are mostly people commuting to Downtown Boston. There are BU people commuting to class inbound on the Green Line, but from my observation many of these people are coming from apartments in the Packard's Corner area. The outbound commute during the day, not evening rush hour but during daytime, consists of mostly people getting on and off at the BU stops.

It's a shame you can't just disagree with someone without resorting to personal attacks. Obviously, I make no effort to hide my affiliation with Boston College. And since you presume to judge someone you don't even know, I won't dignify your jealousy accusation with a response.
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Postby efin98 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:24 am

They are not going away. No amount of crying foul will close those stops. You don't eliminate stops that generate RIDERSHIP just because those riders using the stops are delaying YOUR commute(oh wow, a whole five minutes added on! It's the end of the world!). You keep those stops that generate and eliminate the stops that barely generate any riders at all, that's the simplest rule in transit!

And BCEagle, get over yourself. Your crap is crystal clear- you have an axe to grind with the B Line and no matter what happens you will complain about something. Grow up.
efin98
 

Postby BC Eagle » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:55 am

I believe the B-Line could and should be drastically improved, and apparently there are others who agree with me. Since the T had the wisdom to eliminate 4 stops last year, I see no reason to believe the program cannot be expanded in the future.

No, I don't complain for the sake of complaining. When the T does something noteworthy, I will commend them, and I have in the past. When the T is doing something stupid, then I will criticize them. You seem to blindly defend the MBTA no matter what the circumstances.
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Postby octr202 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:54 am

Well, most riders on the B Line have an ax to grind with it. I spent plenty of time on it in my four years at BC as well, and have known people for the years since then who live along the line. If anything, the stories I hear from riders indicate that the line is getting worse than it was 5-6 years ago, when I used it regularly.

Also, before we degrade this into a BC-BU fight, plenty of BC students use the B Line as a school bus as well. At one time, the BC shuttle service operated all the way to Washington St., allowing students to use it to get to campus. Neighborhood pressure has forced the school to cut the shuttle back to Chiswick Road, and also to eliminate the eastbound stop at South St. (highly utilized, from what I saw when I lived there). This has to have pushed more BC students onto the B Line, who often use it just to go to campus, since that's the free direction. After all, at this point, its starting to make more stops than the shuttle buses.

Personally, I'd like to see the stops cut even more. When I lived on South St., it was nice having a stop at the end of my block, but, it only takes 2-3 minutes to walk to Chestnut Hill Ave. Certainly less than the time to walk to, say, Red Line stops in much of Cambridge.
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Postby BC Eagle » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:33 pm

BC students definitely use the Green Line as well. Currently the BC shuttle does stop at both directions at Greycliffe Rd. and South St. Thus, people who live in these areas generally use the BC shuttle. The shuttle does not go beyond Chiswick Rd., so people who live beyond that point generally use the Green Line in both directions.

When the 4 stops on the B-Line were eliminated last year, I commended the T, it definitely helped to reduce travel time on the B-Line. I have no interests in turning this into a BC vs. BU squable. I do agree that South St. is close to the Chestnut Hill Ave. stop, however it currently is the only stop between Chestnut Hill Ave. and BC, and I do feel that one belongs in this area. Maybe they could move the stop to be in a more central location between Chestnut Hill Ave. and the end of the line?

I also feel that the distances between stops at the BC end of the line are not comparable to the BU end. Atleast regarding Blanford-BU East-BU Central. This is especially true with the elimination of the Greycliffe Rd. stop.
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