Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby CRail » Mon May 07, 2012 12:47 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:Connecting the Blue to the Green would require a whole new subway from Bowdoin to somewhere on the Boylston St Subway. I don't see any way to connect the two at Gov't Center without completely demolishing the existing station and installing a curve like the one at Boylston, which isn't going to happen.

Considering the tunnel exists (at least partially) and at grade level, it seems pretty simple to knock down the wall adjacent the northbound track at Government Center (Scollay Upper) and realign the blue line tracks through there without doing anything you speak of. Light rail would turn using the Brattle loop, or perhaps be realigned to use Bowdoin. Light rail operations would then be divided into two districts; Kenmore to the west, and Gov't Ctr to the north.

It is a stretch but, when you think about it, quite feasible.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby rethcir » Mon May 07, 2012 3:52 pm

Lowest-hanging fruit is probably Indigo into a Red Line branch from SS.

The urban north shore (Chelsea, Everett, Malden, of course Lynn) may have some potential for rapid transit, being heavily populated, lower income, with some ROW available based on glances at Google Maps.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby BostonUrbEx » Mon May 07, 2012 4:11 pm

Most of you seem to be missing the point I think, which is new subways, not just rapid transit.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby Charliemta » Mon May 07, 2012 10:43 pm

MBTA3247 wrote:
Charliemta wrote:1) Convert the Green Line Central Subway to heavy rail, using Blue Line cars. Connect the Blue Line to the Green Land as a continuation of the Blue Line through the Central Subway, and on to a new rerouted A Line to Watertown and Waltham, much of it elevated. The B, C, D and E lnes, the Lechmere viaduct and extension to Union Square would remain light rail.

Connecting the Blue to the Green would require a whole new subway from Bowdoin to somewhere on the Boylston St Subway. I don't see any way to connect the two at Gov't Center without completely demolishing the existing station and installing a curve like the one at Boylston, which isn't going to happen.

I would deep bore a tunnel under the east side of Beacon Hill to connect the Blue Line to the Green Line Central Subway, joining the Green Line subway at Park Street:

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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby trainhq » Tue May 08, 2012 1:51 pm

When a subway version of Urban Ring was looked at a while ago, the cost was estimated at $2 billion for about
maybe 5-8 miles of line. Don't see anything like that happening any time soon.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby wicked » Tue May 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Good luck boring anything on Beacon Hill, especially under the "new" State House.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby Red Wing » Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 pm

My vote is Blue Line to Charles.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby modorney » Wed May 09, 2012 10:25 pm

> Silver Line where it emerges above ground, crosses D street, goes through the Manulife Building, and ends at Silver Line Way. T-Under-D is the project name for the 1-block tunnel extension to eliminate that grade crossing.

Is there a reason why this light is not synchronized to the buses?
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby Disney Guy » Thu May 10, 2012 5:51 am

I would say that there should not be any conversion of the Green Line to regular rapid transit but rather the money should be spent on extending rail transit to other places.

I would say that the biggest problem at D street on the Silver Line is the traffic signal. Is the Manulife buildingthrough which the Silver Line passes constructed so that the Silver Line can be put underground there easily? A reasonable stopgap measure would be shortening the light cycle although the light would not have to change unless a bus was there.

My vote is for extending the Orange Line (and/or creating a new Arborwy light rail line) beyond Forest Hils including to Roslindale Square, with extending the Blue Line from Bowdoin to Charles a close second.

There are lots of times when the Silver Line on Washington St. between Chinatown and Downtown Crossing is horribly delayed. I would like to see some essentially as-is use of the existing Tremont St. subway south of Boylston St. A short Green Line branch from the original portal location in the Don Bosco area, would make for a faster ride even with the need to transfer from bus to rail at the portal. To help make up for the transfer, this new branch would go somewhere useful such as Lechmere. One of the lines from the west would turn at Park St. which would result in no additional congestion in the subway from the introduction of the new branch.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby Gerry6309 » Fri May 11, 2012 7:42 am

There are two corridors where some sort of subway would be the only solution:

1.

The entire length of Route 23 from Ruggles to Ashmont. Existing service here is bogged down in traffic over 14 hours a day and present ridership is at the sardine can level. There is no way to improve this corridor with buses. The best plan would be a light rail or trackless subway in a deep bore from Ruggles to Warren and Walnut with a stop at Dudley. From there use cut and cover under Warren St., Blue Hill Av., Washington St. and Talbot Av. to a terminal under the existing busway at Ashmont. Also include a short branch to a portal at Franklin Park for Route 28 which could then continue to Mattapan as at present with local service. Stations would be at Walnut Av., Mall of Roxbury, Quincy/Townsend, Grove Hall, Four Corners(Commuter Rail), Melville Av., Codman Sq. (Talbot & Lithgow) and Ashmont. Existing Route 23 would continue to provide local service Grove Hall to Ashmont. 14 and 44 would provide local service from Grove Hall to Ruggles, with 28 running on the surface when 14 not running.

2. Replace Route 66 with a deep bore tunnel from Dudley to Brookline Village (non-stop)(D) then cut and cover from there to Allston with stops at School St., halfway between School and Coolidge Corner, Coolidge Corner(C), "North Brookline", Allston Village between Brighton Av.(57) and Comm. Av.(B) The portal would be just north of the Mass Pike with surface operation continuing to Harvard. This would definitely be a TT operation. Reroute the 14 to Malcolm X, Tremont, Huntington and South Huntington to cover Mission Hill.

This would make the Big Dig look like petty cash, but both these routes move at rates of millimeters per millenia and need relief. It also makes light rail for Washington St. look like a bargain! Given the present political climate, this is pure fantasy!
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby wicked » Fri May 11, 2012 3:42 pm

I know it won’t happen anytime in the next 50 years, but I’d think a Blue Hill Avenue subway, at least the stretch from Grove Hall on south, would be very easy to dig – right under the old trolley reservation. As for tying it in to the subway network at Ruggles/wherever, different story.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby CS » Fri May 11, 2012 5:00 pm

wicked wrote:I know it won’t happen anytime in the next 50 years, but I’d think a Blue Hill Avenue subway, at least the stretch from Grove Hall on south, would be very easy to dig – right under the old trolley reservation. As for tying it in to the subway network at Ruggles/wherever, different story.


Is it so necessary to be connected to the network? People really just want a fast way to get downtown. Then again, if you were to do a say Mattapan to Downtown Subway via the 28 route and the Silver Line route, you'd obviously run into problems when you get to the Mass Pike Bridge...
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby diburning » Fri May 11, 2012 10:54 pm

Yeah, why not just a cross-platform transfer? Hell, make it a new colored line too so that people won't get confused.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby wicked » Sat May 12, 2012 11:46 am

CS wrote:
wicked wrote:I know it won’t happen anytime in the next 50 years, but I’d think a Blue Hill Avenue subway, at least the stretch from Grove Hall on south, would be very easy to dig – right under the old trolley reservation. As for tying it in to the subway network at Ruggles/wherever, different story.


Is it so necessary to be connected to the network? People really just want a fast way to get downtown. Then again, if you were to do a say Mattapan to Downtown Subway via the 28 route and the Silver Line route, you'd obviously run into problems when you get to the Mass Pike Bridge...


When I say connected, I mean it should link up with a station on an existing line, where passengers can continue their journey without having to pay an extra fare. Having a standalone line not connected to any other transit network means you basically have a glorified Fairmount Line.
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Re: Will another subway ever be built in Boston?

Postby newpylong » Fri May 18, 2012 10:10 am

Extend the Red Line to Route 128/Burlington. The South Shore has a plethora of mass transit options including the subway. We have quite a drive to Commuter rail in the North...the communities in the Northwest are severely underserved.
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